GOOD AFTERNOON. HOW ARE Y'ALL DOING? STAYING HOME, I HOPE. I AM MICHAEL BARR. I AM THE DEAN OF GERALD R. FORD SCHOOL OF PUBLIC POLICY. I’M REALLY THRILLED TO SEE ALL OF YOU HERE THIS AFTERNOON AND TO WELCOME YOU HERE FOR THE GILL ULMAN AND MARTHA DARLING HEALTH POLICY FUND LECTURE AT THE FORD SCHOOL. THIS TALK IS ON ONE OF THE MOST PRESSING ISSUES FACING OUR COUNTRY, GUN VIOLENCE. I UNDERSTAND WE HAVE FOLKS OUTSIDE ANNE ARBOR WANTING TO VIEW. A SPECIAL WELCOME TO THOSE WATCHING ONLINE. THE LECTURESHIP, EVENT WE ARE HAVING TODAY IS FUNDED BY GILL ULMAN, WHO JUST WALKED IN, AND MARTHA DARLING. AND WE ARE JUST DEEPLY GRATEFUL FOR THEIR SUPPORT WHICH PROVIDES FUNDING FOR HEALTH POLICY FACULTY AND OUTREACH ACTIVITIES HERE AT THE FORD SCHOOL. AND THE FORD SCHOOL IS ABLE THROUGH THIS FUNDING TO ADDRESS A SPECTRUM OF HEALTH POLICY ISSUES. I WANT TO PAUSE AND THANK GILL FOR BEING HERE. [APPLAUSE] >> UNFORTUNATELY MASS SHOOTINGS HAVE BECOME A REGULAR STORY. LAST FEW WEEKS, NINE INCIDENTS OF GUN VIOLENCE, FIVE OR MORE INJURED OR SADLY KILLED. TODAY WE HAVE DISTINGUISHED A PANEL OF EXPERTS TO DISCUSS GUN VIOLENCE. PAULA LANCE ASSOCIATE DEAN AND PROFESSOR OF HEALTH MANAGEMENT AND POLICY AT THE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH WILL INTRODUCE PANELIST AND MODERATE A PROVOCATIVE CONVERSATION. A WORD ON FORMAT. WE'LL HAVE TIME TOWARD THE END FOR QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE P. TWO FORD SCHOOL STUDENTS MARIA AND STEPHEN WILL SIFT THROUGH QUESTION CARDS AND POSE THEM TO THE PANEL. YOU'LL SEE THE CARDS TO FILL OUT QUESTIONS DURING THE COURSE OF THE EVENT. THOSE OF YOU WATCHING ONLINE, TWEET YOUR QUESTIONS USING #POLICYTALKS. WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU BOTH IN THE ROOM TODAY AND THOSE WATCHING ONLINE. LET ME NOW TURN THE PODIUM OVER TO PAULA LANCE. [APPLAUSE] >> HI EVERYONE, WELCOME, THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY. LET ME SET THE STAGE WITH BIT. IN PUBLIC POLICY, WE CONSIDER FRAMING OR HOW ISSUES ARE BEING DEFINED, SHAPED AND TALKED ABOUT BOTH IN TERMS OF HOW PROBLEMS ARE DEFINED AND HOW POLICY RESPONSES ARE GOING TO TRY TO ADDRESS THOSE PROBLEMS. TT U.S., MULTIPLE COMPETING FRAMES IN THE U.S. AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT. THIS INCLUDES THAT THE MAIN UNDERLYING PROBLEM IS VIOLENCE. GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM, VIOLENT PEOPLE AND VIOLENT COMMUNITIES ARE THE PROBLEM. MAIN PROBLEM IS THERE ARE TOO MANY GUNS. GUNS ARE TOO EASY TO GET AND TOO MANY PEOPLE HAVE THEM. DIFFERENT FRAME IS NO, TOO MANY BAD PEOPLE HAVE GUNS, CRIMINALS, PEOPLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. ANOTHER FRAME, GOOD PEOPLE ARE NOT ARMED ENOUGH TO PROTECT THEMSELVES AND THEIR PROPERTY. MAIN PROBLEM IS PEOPLE DON'T FOLLOW THE LAWS WE ALREADY HAVE. WE DON'T NEED NEW LAWS JUST BETTER ENFORCEMENT. ANOTHER FRAME, PROBLEM IS WE HAVE A LOT OF THE OF PUBLIC POLICIES THAT MOSTLY DON'T WORK AND IN FACT HAVE UNEQUAL AND RESTRICTIVE BURDENS PLACED ON PEOPLE SOMETIME ON RACE. U.S. CONSTITUTION GIVES EVERYONE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO PROTECT THAT RIGHT FIRST AND FOREMOST. AGAIN MANY COMPETING FRAMES. WE ARE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE A GROUP OF EXPERTS TO DISCUSS THIS COMPLEX TOPIC. HONORED TO INTRODUCE THEM ALL TO YOU. THRILLED TO INTRODUCE JANE BACK TO CAMPUS. AFTER ATTENDING UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN AS AN UNDERGRADE. SHE IS NOW A SENIOR POLITICS REPORTER AT VOX AND WRITES ON A WIDE RANGE OF ISSUES CONSERVE TIFF POLITICS, PROFESSIONAL SPORTS AND RACEST HISTORY OF GUN CONTROL IN THE UNITED STATES. NEXT DR. REBECCA CUNNINGHAM. HERE AT THE FORD SCHOOL TODAY, EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN DR. CUNNINGHAM IS PROFESSOR OF PUBLIC HEALTH AND ALSO HAS TIME TO BE THE DIRECTOR OF THE UNIVER UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN INJURY PREVENTION CENTER. SPECIAL FOCUS ON INJURY FROM FIREARM VIOLENCE AND OPIOID AND OTHER DRUG OVERDOSE. VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE DR. JONATHAN METZEL. DOCTOR IS AT VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY WHERE HE IS THE FREDRICK B. WRENCHLER THE SECOND AND DIRECTOR OF MEDICINE, HEALTH AND SOCIETY. BOARD CERTFIED PSYCHOLOGIST. EXPERT ON MENTAL ILLNESS, HEALTH INEQUITIES AND GUN VIOLENCE. REGARDLESS OF WHAT NATIONAL NEWS TV PROGRAM, YOU HAVE LIKELY SEEN HIM ON THAT SHOW. I SEE YOU AT THE GYM QUITE A BIT, ACTUALLY. PLEASE JOIN ME IN WELCOMING OUR DISTINGUISHED PANELISTS TODAY. [APPLAUSE] SO WE ARE GOING TO START OUT JUST BY HAVING OUR PANELIST TALK OUR THEIR OWN WORK, SOME OF THE WORK THEY HAVE DONE AND GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO LAY OUT FOR ALL OF US HOW THEY SEE THIS ISSUE AND WHAT -- YOU HAVE FIVE MINUTES, WHAT THEY WANT US TO KNOW ABOUT THEM AND HOW THEY WORK AND THINK ABOUT THIS ISSUE AS WE GET FURTHER INTO THIS DISCUSSION, WE ARE GOING TO START WITH JANE. >> HI, EVERYONE, NICE TO BE BACK. FUNNY TO HAVE GRADUATED 10 YEARS AGO, WALKING AROUND AND BTB BURRITOS IS STILL HERE. MY WORK IS FOCUSSED ON GUN VIOLENCE FROM A LEGAL AND JOURNALISTIC ISSUE NOT SO MUCH AS PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE. A LOT OF MY WRITING FOCUSES ON CONSERVATISM AND GOP SPECIFICALLY ABOUT GUN RIGHTS. I HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT GUN RIGHTS AND WHO HAS ACCESS. I HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT THE RACIST HISTORY OF GUN CONTROL WHICH IN ANY WAYS YOU SEE IN THE ANTEBELLUM SOUTH AND JIM CROW. YOU HAD FIGURES LIKE HARRIET TUBMAN WISELY RECOGNIZED A WINCHESTER RIFLE WAS THE ONLY THING THAT STOOL BETWEEN THEM. WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE MILFORD ACT BANNED OPEN CARRY OF WEAPONS IN CALIFORNIA SET IN PLACE BY THEN GOVERNOR RONALD REAGAN WHO SAW THE BLACK PANTHERS PROTESTING HOLDING LONG GUNS. THAT JUST CAN'T HAPPEN. I THINK HAVING THE HISTORICAL CONTEXT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GUNS AND GUN VIOLENCE IS SOMETHING REAL LE IMPORTANT TO ME. ALSO AND THE CONVERSATIONS I HAVE WITH CONSERVATIVES. ALSO I THINK WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT. WHEN YOU TALK TO CONSERVATIVES AND LEGAL SCHOLARS, PUBLIC POLICY ON GUNS NEEDS TO FIT INTO A NARROW SPACE CREATED BY THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION AND SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES. INTO THAT SPACE IS WHERE PUBLIC POLICY ON GUNS NEEDS TO BE. I THINK PUTTING IT INTO THAT FRAMEWORK IS HELPFUL. IT IS ALSO REALLY DEPRESSING, OTHER COUNTRIES MAY HAVE HAVE MASSIVE GUN BUY BACK PROGRAMS. OKAY, THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES ARE NOT THIS ONE. WE NEED TO ABIDE BY THE FRAMEWORK SET UP WE HAVE NOW OR WE NEED TO CHANGE THE CONSTITUTIONAL FRAMEWORK AND THERE IS A PROCESS BY WHICH WE CAN DO THAT AND WELCOME YOU TO TRY. KEEPING HISTORICAL CONTEXT FOR DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE, WHAT ACCESS TO GUNS IS MEANT AND WHAT THAT ACCESS HAS LOOKED LIKE ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS. ALSO WRECK NIEZ -- RECOGNIZING TO GUIDE US FORWARD ON WHAT POLICIES NOT SO MUCH WORK OR DON'T BUT ARE POSSIBLE OR IMPOSSIBLE. >> GREAT, THANK YOU. REBECCA. >> THIS IS GOING TO BE FUN. [LAUGHTER] I AM AN EMERGENCY PHYSICIAN BY TRAINING. ALSO WITH PUBLIC HEALTH BACKGROUND. AS THE DIRECTOR OF THE INJURY PREVENTION CENTER HERE, I BRING THE FRAME OF FIREARMS -- NOT THOUGHT OF TO BE THE OTHER MECHANISMS OF INJURY WE HAVE SPEND TIME ON, MOTOR VEHICLE TO FIRE, BURN TO OPIOIDS. I ALSO BRING AS A PRACTICING PHYSICIAN THAT HAS TAKEN CARE OF PATIENTS HERE AND IN FLINT, MICHIGAN AT THE BEDSIDE GIVING BAD NEWS TO PARENTS AND FAMILY. I BRING TO THIS THE FRAME OF HAND OUT THAT SHOWS THE TRENDS OF DEATH OVER TIME. WE LOOK AT THE DEATH RATES PASSED 10-15 YEARS, FIREARMS ARE THE SECOND LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH AMONG CHILDREN AND TEENS IN OUR COUNTRY, 1-19 AS OF 2017, IT IS AGES 1-17. WE ARE NOT ALLOWING THE CHILDREN IN OUR COUNTRY TO BE 18 YEAR OLDS. WE ARE CUTTING OFF ABOUT LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IF YOU ARE A TEENAGER REGARDLESS, YOUR MECHANISM OF DEATH IS MOST LIKELY TO BE FIREARM. IF YOU ARE NOT WHITE, MOST LIKELY THING YOU WILL DIE OF AFTER I RELEASE YOU WILL BE A FIREARM BEFORE YOUR 18TH BIRTHDAY. THAT IS THE FRAMING I BRING. I HAVE A MUCH MORE INTERESTED VIEW. THAT IS A NARROW NICHE FOR THE CONSTITUTION AT ALL. ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT IS A MILE WIDE. FRAMING I BRING TO THIS WITH FIREARM, SAFETY WITH TEEN C CONS CONSORTION. WE HAVE A STAKEHOLDER GROUP AND FOCUSSED ON THE FACT WE HAVE SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY AND SO MUCH WE COULD DO WITHIN THOSE SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS WE HAVEN'T BEGIN TO TRY TO DO. BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF ATTENTION AND HOW MUCH OF THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN A THIRD RAIL. WE DO NOT -- WE HAVE CARS IN THIS COUNTRY, I AM NOT GOING BACK TO ANY HORSE AND BUGGY. WE HAVE MORE CARS AND MILES DRIVEN. PLENTY OF ROOM TO DO SOMETHING AT THE BED SIDES AND PUBLIC HEALTH ON THIS TOPIC. >> THANK YOU EVERYONE, SUCH A PLEASURE TO COME BACK HOME. I WANT TO THANK GILL. I UNDERSTAND WHY I AM SITTING IN THE MIDDLE. I AM A FRAME SHIFTER IN A WAY. I DON'T EVER ADOPT ONE FRAME. I HAVE HAD THREE MAJOR FRAMES. I STARTED OFF MY ENGAGEMENT WITH THIS ISSUE OF GUNS AND GUN RIGHTS WHEN I WAS HERE AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN. I WROTE A BOOK PROTEST PSYCHOSIS AND THE WAYS THE ANGRY BLACK MAN BECAME A MEDICALIZED THREAT THROUGH JAMES BROWN AND MALCOM XALL THE SUDDEN THEY WERE SEEN AS INSANE. PART OF THE STORY IS A STORY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED WHEN BLACK MEN TRIED TO ACCESS GUN RIGHTS. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO PROTECT OURSELVES. A LOT OF PEOPLE HAD A REASON TO PROTECT THEMSELVES, POLITICAL LEADERS LIKE ROBERT WILLIAMS AND NAACP, CAROLINAS, MALCOM X. PEOPLE WERE SAYING THE POLICE AREN'T PROTECTING US. WE HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO PROTECT OURSELVES AND GOVERNMENT IS TYRANNICAL. WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THESE BLACK POLITICAL LEADERS TRIED TO ACCESS RIGHTS, FULL WEIGHT OF THE GOVERNMENT CAME DOWN ON THEM. THEY WERE ALL DIAGNOSED WITH SCHIZOPHRENIA. WILLIAMS WAS CHASEED TO CUBA. RELATIONSHIP GUN RIGHTS AND GUN CONTROL. ALSO WHAT HAPPENED IN CALIFORNIA W WITH BLACK PEN THEY ARES. SECOND PHASE OF MY CAREER WAS ALL OF A SUDDEN, STAND YOUR GROUND SHOOTING IN FLORIDA. ZIMMERMAN AND TRAYVON MARTIN AND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN BLACK BOYS AND MEN ARE SEEN AS THREATS. SOME HOW LED INTO ME GETTING CALLED AS A PSYCHIATRIST INTO EVERY MASS SHOOTING. I SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN THE GYM. I ENJOY THIS MSNBC TO FOX NEWS AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN. I BECAME A VOICE ABOUT THIS RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GUNS AND ME MENTAL ILLNESS. I STARTED GOING ON MEDIA, SAME STIGMAIZATIONS HAPPENING AROUND AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN GETTING APPLIED TO PEOPLE WITH MENTAL ILLNESS. I THINK THERE ARE REAL STORIES WE NEED TO TELL AFTER MASS SHOOTINGS. HERE IS MENTAL ILLNESS AND HERE IS MASS SHOOTING. WHAT I TRIED TO ARGUE IS THERE ARE ALL THESE OTHER STORIES THAT PLAY OUT IN MASS SHOOTINGS, GUN AC ACCESS, WHO GETS TO CARRY A GUN AND STOCK PILE A GUN. I STARTED DOING A LOT OF THE OF MEDIA. THIS MEDIA STORY TOOK OFF. I ENDED UP GETTING INTERESTED IN GUNS AND POLITICS. TRANSITION ING -- SAFE TENNESSEE PROJECT. SIMILARLY, BIPARTISAN POLICY INSTITUTE THAT FORMS CENTRIST BIPARTISAN CONSENSUS ABOUT REASONABLE GUN REFORM. >> I AM SO HEARTENED BY THE EXISTENCE OF THIS. >> WE STARTED WITH LOW HANGING FRUIT. WE HAD BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR PARTICULAR BILLS. VERY LAST MINUTE, NRA LOBBYIST AND KEEP US FROM FORMING ANY CONSENSUS. SECOND LESSON I LEARNED ABOUT THE FORCES THAT WANT TO KEEP US THINKING EITHER PROOR ANTI. FORCES THAT BENEFIT FROM KEEPING US POLARIZED. THEN I'LL SAY. LAST PART IS A SCHOLARLY PART. I HAVE A BOOK COMING OUT IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS, BACK IN MICHIGAN IN APRIL. I AM FROM MISSOURI. I WENT THROUGH RURAL MISSOURI TALKING TO PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT GUNS MEANT TO THEM AND SCOURGE OF WHITE MALE SUICIDE. WHEN I DIDN'T USE CHARGE WORDS LIKE GUN CONTROL OR GUN RIGHTS, I FOUND A MUCH MORE NUANCED-RICH PICTURE. I AM FOR NRA BUT FOR A GUN SAFE OR GUN LOCK. I WANT TO KEEP MY COMMUNITY SAFE. I DEVELOPED FRUSTRATION ABOUT HOW POLARIZATION IS ENFORCED. AND PEOPLE BENEFIT FROM THE POLARIZATION. IF I COULD SAY ONE LAST THING. IT IS TO ADD -- LEAD INTO THE NEXT. ANOTHER THING I LEARNED FROM THIS THING LIKE THE CONSTITUTION, THE SECOND AMENDMENT, DOCUMENT HASN'T ALWAYS BEEN THE SAME. MULTIPLE REINTERPRETATIONS, WE ARE ABOUT TO SEE ANOTHER ONE. IN A WAY POLITICAL SHIFTS ABOUT HOW WE INTERPRET SECOND AMENDMENT THAT ARE PART OF THE ISSUE. >> THAT WAS GREAT. ACTUALLY, YOU ALL TOUCHED A BIT ON THE NEXT THING WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT. THAT IS DO YOU THINK FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHAT ARE THE WAYS IN WHICH THIS ISSUE ARE TALKED ABOUT ARE THE MOST UNPRODUCTIVE THAT YOU WISH THE MEDIA WOULD STOP DOING OR ADVOCACY GROUPS OR POLICY MAKERS? WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL BE THE MOST PRODUCTIVE WAYS TO HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS AND ACTUALLY MOVE CONVERSATION AND POTENTIALLY POLICY ACTION FORWARD, REBECCA? >> YOU SET THIS UP BEAUTIFULLY FOR ME. POLARIZATION IS NOT NECESSARY. SOLUTIONS ARE MUCH MORE NUANCED THAN MANY FORCES WOULD BELIEVE. IF YOU CAN WALK AWAY FROM ONE THING. IF YOU CAN NEVER WRITE ONE THING AGAIN, GUN CONTROL NEEDS TO BE ELIMINATED FROM OUR LANGUAGE. BACK TO MY HISTORICAL ROOTS, IF I TOLD YOU I WAS GOING TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT CAR CONTROL. THERE IS NO HEALTH BEHAVIOR TECHNIQUE TELLING PEOPLE YOU ARE GOING TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT CONTROLLING THEM. IT IS A FRAME THAT IS NOT PARTICULARLY HELPFUL AT ALL. NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE WAY WE THINK OF INJURY PREVENTION SCIENCE WHICH IS A SCIENCE IN ANY OTHER FRAMEWORK. WE THINK ABOUT SAFETY. WE ARE FIRE ALARM SAFETY. WITH THAT FRAME, YOU AUTOMATICALLY START WITH A COMMON UNDERSTANDING, GUNS ARE GOING TO EXIST IN OUR CULTURE. CARS ARE GOING TO EXIST. TOGETHER WE HAVE TO WORK HOW THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE MORE SAFE AND LESS CHILDREN DEAD, FOR EXAMPLE. WHEN WE TALK WITH STAKEHOLDERS ACROSS POLITICAL SPECTRUM AS WELL. I HAVE YET TO FIND A SINGLE NRA GUN MEMBER WHO SAYS HE WOULD LIKE HIS GRANDCHILD TO END UP DEAD FROM A GUN. WE ALL AGREE WE WOULD NOT LIKE CHILDREN AND TEENS DYING INADVERTENTLY. WE THINK ABOUT A SAFETY FRAME. THAT IS MY STICK ON FRAME CHANGE. >> THANK YOU. FOR THE BOOK I HAVE OUT, I SPOKE TO PEOPLE THAT HAD CHILDREN DIE THAT ARE PROGUNS, THEY WERE THE SAME AFTER. YOU TOUCHED ON THE PRESSING ISSUE FROM OUR TIME. FUCH, FUCH SO MUCH HARDER. OTHER PEOPLE MORTIFIED AT THE SITE OF THE GUN. IF YOU GIVE AN INCH YOU'LL GIVE A YARD. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I DO FEEL IN THE GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION COMMUNITY, THERE IS A MOVE TO SAYING THE SECOND AMENDMENT EXISTS, WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE AWAY ANYBODY'S GUNS. IF I AGREE ON SOMETHING I ACTUALLY MAYBE AGREE ON I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, LAS VEGAS SHOOTING, SHOOTER USED A BUMP STOCK. TURNS SEMIAUTOMATIC WEAPON INTO AN AUTOMATIC WEAPON. I DON'T KNOW IF MANY PEOPLE THAT HAVE EATEN DINNER WITH A BUMP STOCK. NO REAL HUNTING REASON TO HAVE A BUMP IS TO BE STOCK. PEOPLE SAD I CAN SEE BUMP STOCKS, BUT THERE WAS A FEAR GIVING UP AN INCH WAS TO GIVE UP THE WHOLE FARM. THAT IS PART OF THE ISSUE THAT FRAMES LIKE PUBLIC HEALTH HAVE HAD A HARD TIME ACCOUNTING FOR. THERE ARE FRAMES LIKE DANIEL WEBSTER AND GROUP FROM JOHN'S HOPKINS WENT INTO MISSOURI. FOUND OUT A PARTICULAR BILL IN MISSOURI PASSED IN 2008 LED TO A WHOLE HOST OF OTHER CHANGES AND ARGUMENT IS THEY SHOULD GO BACK TO EARLIER LAWS AND IMPLEMENT GUN CONTROL. THEY NEVER ASKED THE PEOPLE WHAT DOES YOUR GUN MEAN TO YOU? IT WAS IMMEDIATELY REJECTED BY PEOPLE LIKE LOT AND OTHERS THAT WRITE PRO-GUN POLICIES. IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT STUDYING GUN POLICY. INTERESTING TO SEE THE DIFFERENT RESPONSES AND THE WAY IT IS FRAMED. I THINK THAT IS A PROBLEM. IT IS A PROBLEM TO BE ADDRESSED. WE ALSO NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHO IS KEEPING US POLARIZED. AM I OVER TIME ALREADY? THE TWO FRAMES I NEED TO THINK ABOUT GOING FORWARD. TIES TO THE ISSUES PEOPLE TALKED ABOUT ALREADY, RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN ACTIVISM, WE ARE SEEING GUN ACTIVISM. MOMS DEMAND AND GROUPS LIKE THAT. PARKLAND ISSUE -- SHOOTING. THAT IS GOING TO INFLUENCE HOW PEOPLE OWN, CARRY, TRANSPORT, BUY, THINK ABOUT GUNS IN THIS COUNTRY. PART OF THE ISSUE IS THERE IS THE ACTIVISM REALM AND ACADEMIC REALM. I THINK AT THE JUDGE LEVEL. THERE IS NOT THE SAME LEVEL. >> EXACTLY. I WOULD SAY GOING OFF OF THAT. I AM THE PERSON HERE FROM THE MEDIA. I AM NOT SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF THE MEDIA. I WOULD NEED TO CONSULT A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE. YOU MENTIONED THE PEOPLE VORSHACK TEST. WE USED THE IDEA OF GUNS. CERTAIN GROUPS THAT REALLY KIND OF WANT YOU TO DO THAT. I HAVE DONE A TON OF REPORTING ON THE NRA AND ITS CURRENT FINANCIAL SITUATION WHICH IS NOT GRE GREAT. ONCE THEY BECAME IN THE 1970S, IT WAS A SPORTSMAN'S ORGANIZATION. YOU WERE GOING TO GO OUT AND HUNT BUCK, DEER. THIS IS THE ORGANIZATION FOR YOU. IT TURNED INTO A -- I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING PEOPLE SAID IT IS A NEW THING, IT IS NOT NEW HOW THE NRA HAS SEEN GUNS AS A CULTURAL ISSUE. WE SAW THIS IN THE EARLY 1990S, NRA DESCRIBED THE FBI AS JACK BOOTED THUGS CAUSING FORMER PRESIDENT H.W. BUSH TO RESIGN S. FOR ONE THING KIND OF REMOVES INTERESTING, TENSION. THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF THEY WERE LIKE TO RESPOND TO GAY BASHING PERHAPS -- CERTAIN SUPREME COURT CASES DEUCEY VS. HELLER. THAT WAS ABOUT THE ISSUE OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN GUN OWNERS AND HOW THEY CAN BE OWNED IN THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE SPECIFICS OF BUMP STOCKS WHICH IS A FASCINATING ISSUE. THAT IS WHY THIS PARTICULAR ADMINISTRATION HAS MOVED AWAY FROM THE POSITION. GUN RIGHTS COMMUNITY IS SUING THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OVER THE BUMP STOCK BAND. IT IS INTERESTING HOW THIS CONVERSATION HAS BECOME A POLITICAL ONE A LOT OF THE OF WAYS DIDN'T NEED TO BE. YOU WERE TALK ABOUT THAT ENFORCED POLARIZATION. WHEN I TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT FOR EXAMPLE, CHILD ACCESS PREVENTION LAWS -- THE AGE AT WHICH EVERYBODY IS APPLICABLE IS INSANELY LOW. IF YOU ARE A CHILD UNDER THE AGE OF 11, AND YOU USE A GUN TO DO SOMETHING THEN YOUR PARENTS COULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE. FOR SOMEONE OLDER THAT IS NOT APPLICABLE. THEY WERE LIKE OKAY, THIS IS A FORMER POLICY GUN RIGHTS ADVOCATES COULD GET BEHIND. ONE POINTING OUT IT WAS RETRO AC ACTIVE. FOR A LOT OF US WE TAKE THE IDEA AS YOU SAID ONE STEP IS A MILE. COME AND TAKE THEM. ANY STEP WHATSOEVER IS GIVING IN ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. I THINK THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE POLARIZATION. YOU CAN OWN THEM WE ALSO NEED SAFETY EXAMINATIONS. YOU ARE CURTAILING EXPRESSION IN A SENSE. THAT MAKES CONVERSATION DIFFICULT TO HAVE. ESPECIALLY IN AN ENVIRONMENT DIFFICULT TO SAY -- I THINK THAT POLARIZATION AND HOW GUNS HAVE BECOME A WAY OF GETTING TO KNOW SOMEONE'S POLITICS. THAT HAS BEEN A BIG HINDRANCE TO THIS CONVERSATION GOING FORWARD. >> THANKS, I WANT TO REMIND YOU ALL WE WILL BE HAVING Q&A WITH THE AUDIENCE COMING UP SOON. WRITE YOUR QUESTIONS ON THE CARDS AND ALSO FOR OUR ONLINE AUDIENCE. WE WELCOME YOUR PARTICIPATION. IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT THROUGH TWITTER, #POLICY TALKS. WE ARE GOING TO SCHOOL PUBLIC POLICY. WE LIKE TO TALK ABOUT POLICY. TO OUR DISTINGUISHED GUESTS, HERE IS YOUR CHANCE, TOP TWO PUBLIC POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT YOU BELIEVE ARE OF THE HIGHEST PRIORITY FOR REDUCING, SUFFERING, PAIN AND LOSS GUN VIOLENCE HAS IN OUR SOCIETY. COULD BE SOMETHING YOU WANT TO PROMOTE OR POLICY RECOMMENDATION OF SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NOT BE PURSUED. JOHNATHON. >> I AM GOING TO DO THE THING JANE SAID NOT TO DO THIS OR THAT. I WILL SAY ON ONE HAND ANSWER IS NOT A MYSTERY. IF YOUR FRAME IS GUN RELATING DEATH, THERE ARE JUST CLEAR LINES, CLEAR GRAPHS BETWEEN EFFECTIVE PARTICULAR STATE LAWS, NUMBER OF GUNS IN CIRCULATION AND JUST THE KIND OF SHOOTINGS. I LIVE IN THE STATE, TENNESSEE WE MADE IT EASIER, I LIVE IN THIS PLACE CALLED PRINTERS ALLEY IN NASHVILLE. PEOPLE CAN JUST BRING THEIR GUNS INTO BARS. I WORRY ABOUT A GUY I JUST GOT A RAISE. IF YOU CARE ABOUT PUBLIC POLICY, DON'T LET GUNS INTO BARS, 5-7 CHANCE MORE LIKELY CHANCE OF GUN RELATED INJURY AND DEATH. YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT EASIER PERMITLESS CARRY. REDUCING POWER OF BACKGROUND CHECKS. PEOPLE WHO FLAG ON AN IDEALIZED BACKGROUND CHECK ARE PEOPLE WITH DOMESTIC ABUSE AND AT HIGHER RISK OF SHOOTING THEIR PARTNERS. I THINK THE TAKE HOME POINT FROM A POLICY POINT IS ON ONE HAND. I THINK IF WE NATIONALIZE THE BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM AND CLOSED GUN SHOW LOOPHOLES AND MADE IT MORE UNIFORM SO YOU CAN'T TRANSPORT ACROSS STATE LINES. STATES THAT HAVE MORE STRICT BACKGROUND SYSTEMS HAVE LESS GUN RELATED INJURY AND DEATH BY 50%. IF INJURY AND DEATH IS YOUR FRAME, THERE IS NO MYSTERY. YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE ARTICLES THAT STARTED THE SO-CALLED BAN IN THE FIRST PLACE. THEY ARE NOT INCREDIBLY CONTROVERSIAL. KELLERMAN ARGUED IN 1990S, HOMES WITH GUNS HAD MORE SHOOTINGS. THAT IS THE CRUX OF IT. MORE PARTNER SHOOTINGS AND SUICIDES. WOULD BE HARDER TO HAVE MORE SHOOTINGS. SELF-EVIDENT IN A PARTICULAR WAY. THIS TAPPED INTO SOMETHING DEEP THAT TIED INTO THIS QUESTION OF IDENTITY. POINT NO. 1, FRAME IS INJURY AND DEATH. THERE IS NOT A HUGE MYSTERY. >> IT WAS JUST ABOUT -- JURP AND DEATH, LOOK AT NEW YORK. LOOK AT D.C. LOOK AT OTHER CITIES. LESS PARTNER VIOLENCE LESS GUN SUICIDES. LESS SHOOTINGS, POLICE GETTING SHOT. THAT IS ON ONE HAND. ON THE OTHER HAND. I THINK THAT THERE IS A LOT OF CONCERNING AMONG PEOPLE. IT IS FUNNY PEOPLE ON THE PRO-GUN SIDE THEY REJECT PUBLIC HEALTH OUT OF HAND. THEY ARGUE IT IS A TAINTED GOVERNMENT MODEL. GOAL IS UNDERLYING. THERE IS UNDERLYING ANTIGUN HEALTH. I DO THINK IT IS VERY INCUMBENT ON PUBLIC HEALTH. IF IT WANTS TO MAKE A DENT HERE, ALSO LOOK AT THE MEANINGS OF GUNS IN PRO-GUN COMMUNITIES AND THINK ABOUT WAYS TO ENGAGE THE POLICIES. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT. MY TAKE HOME IS THAT IF WE CAN SOLVE THE QUESTION OF WHAT ARE THE POLICIES THAT ARE GOING TO WORK AND DIFFERENT PRO-GUN COMMUNITIES WE COULD SOLVE THIS NATIONALLY. I THINK THAT IS WHAT GETS US DOWN. IN A NUTSHELL MORE BACKGROUND CHECKS, GUN VIOLENCE RESTRAINING ORDERS. I THINK THOSE WOULD BE FOR ME, THE TWO THAT WOULD CUT GUN DEATH BY AT LEAST A HALF. >> I THINK THE ISSUE OF GUN VIOLENCE RESTRAINING ORDERS. THAT IS SOMETHING WE CAN WORK WITH. I THINK THAT THE INTERNAL MECHANICS, GUN VIOLENCE RESTRAINING ORDER INVOLVES GOING TO A JUDGE, THIS PERSON SHOULD NOT BE PERMITTED TO HAVE AND POSSESS GUNS. THAT GETS INTO, ALL OF THIS IS GOING TO GET MESSY. YOU ARE DEALING WITH THE INTERNAL LIVES OF INDIVIDUALS. WHEN I WAS THINKING HOW BEST TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT INTIMATE VIOLENCE? MASS SHOOTINGS? THERE ARE DIFFERENT POLICY PRIORITIES FOR BOTH. BOTH HAVE DIFFERENT MODELS. I KNOW IT IS NOT NECESSARILY A POLICY PRIORITY. ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE SEE WITH MASS SHOOTINGS. THEY CREATE THEIR OWN HATE GEOGRAPHY. WE SAW THAT WITH COLUMBINE. EVEN THE FACT THAT I CAN LIST OFF PLACE AND SHOOTER IN A NUMBER OF MASS SHOOTINGS SINCE MEDIA TO STOP DOING THAT. DO NOT PUBLICIZE THE NAMES OF SHOOTERS. TRY TO REALLY FOCUS ON WHAT HAS TAKEN PLACE AND THE PEOPLE LOST. THERE HAS BEEN INTERESTING RESEARCH ON THE COPY CAT EFFECT YOU SEE FROM CERTAIN MASS SHOOTINGS. WHEN IT COMES TO EVERYDAY SHOOTINGS, I DON'T MEAN TO BE FLIP IN ANY WAY, I MEAN SHOOTINGS SOMETHING OVER AN ARGUMENT OR SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS AS A RESULT OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. GUN VIOLENCE RESTRAINING ORDERS ARE IMPORTANT. CHILD ACCESS RESTRAINING LAWS. THEY WORK RETRO ACTIVELY AND AN IMPORTANT TOUCH STONE TO BEGIN TALK ABOUT HOW PARTICIPATES ARE INTERACTING. I BELIEVE IT WAS A CASE IN NASHVILLE, WAFFLE HOUSE, IN WHICH THE SHOOTER HAD HIS GUNS TAKEN AWAY, RETURNED TO HIS FATHER WHICH RETURNED THEM TO THE CHILD IN QUESTION. QUESTION WAS 19, TENNESSEE HAVE A CAP LAW BUT DOESN'T APPLY BECAUSE HE WAS TOO OLD. I ALSO THINK SOMETHING THAT'S IMPORTANT THAT I WOULD WANT TO PRIORITIZE, OCCASIONALLY WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, YOU BROUGHT UP THE POINT TALKING TO PRO-GUN COMMUNITIES, HOW THEY FEEL AND GUN LAW THAT IS WORK FOR THEM. SOMETHING I NOTICED IN MY REPORTING, WHEN YOU TALK TO SOME FOLKS, HOW THEY THINK ABOUT GUNS IS DIFFERENT FROM HOW THEY THINK PEOPLE THAT OWN GUNS IN OTHER COMMUNITIES THINK ABOUT GUNS. THEIR GUNS IS VERY MUCH, THIS IS MY MEANS OF SELF-DEFENSE. YOU GET THE WHAT ABOUT CHICAGO. THEY ARE USING GUNS TO BE TERRIBLE AND SHOOT EVERYONE. WHEREAS IF YOU GO TO TALK TO PEOPLE LIVING IN BALTIMORE ELSEWHERE INTERESTED IN OWNING GUNS, THEY ARE INTERESTED IN OWNING GUNS SAME REASON SMM SOMEONE IN DUBUQUE, IOWA OR BOISE, OR THEY WANT TO GO TO A GUN RANGE AT SOME POINT. WHILE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NATIONALIZING POLICY PRIORITIES, TALKING TO COMMUNITIES ABOUT GUNS, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE COMMUNITIES UNDERSTAND THEY ARE NOT AS DISSIMILAR AS THEY THINK. I THINK YOU GET THE SENSE SOME FOLKS THESE URBAN AREA THAT IS SEE GUN VIOLENCE HAPPENING FOR VERY DIFFERENT REASONS THAN GUN VIOLENCE IN SUBURBAN OR RURAL AREAS. I DON'T THINK IT IS. SAME HUMAN IMPULSES EXIST IN A LOT OF THESE DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES AND SHOULD BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT GUNS ACROSS COMMUNITIES IN A WAY THAT IS A LOT MORE EFFECTIVE ON STOPPING GUN VIOLENCE AND NOT DOING SO MUCH DIVISION AND POLARIZATION. >> ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT LATELY IN DATA IS EXACTLY THAT POLARIZATION THERE IS A CONCEPT FIREARM VIOLENCE AND INJURY AND DEATH HAPPENS IN SOMEONE ELSE'S NEIGHBORHOOD MORE. THERE IT IS A PROBLEM. DATA FOUND FOR KIDS AND TEENS RATES OF KIDS AND TEENS DYING IS EXACTLY SAME IN SUBURBAN AND RURAL AND URBAN AMERICA. MECHANISM IS DIFFERENT. ESSENTIALLY, RATES ARE IN EVERYBODY'S BACKYARD. THAT IS HOW YOU START TO GET COMMUNITIES, WHEN YOU SAY WE NEED TO GET COMMUNITIES TALKING, THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT. UNTIL NOW, NO ABILITY TO HAVE CONVERSATION WITH THAT. SO IS TO WHAT WE THINK WE CAN DO. I SIT HERE FIRST OF ALL WITH A RESEARCH HAT ON. SECOND OF ALL, RUNNING OUR CONSORTIUM. I HEARD YOU MENTIONED A NUMBER OF TIMES, WE KNOW, THIS RESEARCH SHOWS THIS ABOUT POLICY. DATA SHOWS THIS MY REACTION TO THAT, WE KNOW ALMOST NOTHING. THERE HAS BEEN NO DATA. OUR ABILITY TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS HAS BEEN 100% IN A VACUUM. LITTLE COMPARISON FOR THAT TREND GRAPH. OVER THAT LAST 10-YEAR PERIOD, WE SPENT A BILLION DOLLARS ON MOTOR VEHICLE CRASH RESEARCH. WE HAVE AN ENTIRE BUILDING DEDICATED TO TRANSPORTATION RESEARCH AND SPEND A LOT OF MONEY IN THIS COUNTRY. NO. 3 CAUSE IS CANCER. WE HAVE AN ENTIRE CANCER INSTITUTE. ALMOST EVERY MAJOR MEDICAL CAMPUS HAS A CANCER INSTITUTE. IN THAT SAME PERIOD FOR FIREARM VIOLENCE, WE SPENT THREE MILLION DOLLARS. WE GAVE OUT NINE GRANTS IN THIS COUNTRY. PEOPLE YOU MENTION, YOU HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT OF THE OF WORK ON LOOKING IN THE POLICY AS IS DANIEL WEBSTER AND I CAN NAME THE OTHER THREE ON MY HAND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SCRAPING BY IN THEIR CLOSET WITH DOLLARS SCRAPED TOGETHER LOOK AT SOMETHING AND TOO TERRIFIED TO PUB ESTABLISHED AND AFRAID TO POST IT. TEN YEARS AGO I COULDN'T GET A SINGLE JUNIOR FACULTY BECAUSE THERE WAS NO CAREER PATH. ONE CAN'T GET PROMOTION AND TENURE WITHOUT GRANTS AND FUNDING. NO CAREER PATH. DR. CUNNINGHAM, I WILL STUDY SOMETHING ELSE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE HAVE SEEN THIS LATELY BEAUTIFULLY WITH THE OPIOID CRISIS. WE DECIDED WE DON'T WANT THIS MANY PEOPLE DYING FROM OPIOID OVERDOSES WHICH IS AS STIGMATIZED AS A PROBLEM. WE ARE DUMPING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO THIS AND ALL OF OUR COMMUNITIES AND MAKING IT A PRIORITY. WE ARE MAKING REAL PROGRESS AND INROADS. WE ARE NOWHERE NEAR THE TOP OF THE EPIDEMIC. IF WE GAVE PART OF THAT AMOUNT OF FUNDING TO FIREARM VIOLENCE, WE WOULD HAVE A LOT OF THE OF BRILLIANT PEOPLE COMING UP WITH BRILLIANT SOLUTIONS. NO OTHER -- FIREARM INJURY PREVENTION IS A SCIENCE IN THE END. THERE IS A SCIENCE TO THE POLICY ANALYSIS AND WRITING AROUND IT. NO OTHER SCIENCE DEBATE WHERE WE THINK TWO GUYS, TWO WOMEN SITTING ON A CORNER OR BAR TALK TOGETHER. I THINK WE SHOULD DO THIS. TOO MUCH MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMSES. WHERE IS THE DATA. THAT IS NOT THE REASON WE CAME UP WITH SOLUTIONS FOR CANCER. THERE WEREN'T TWO GUYS SITTING AROUND THAT CAME UP WITH SEAT BELTS THEN THEY TESTED THEM AND IMPLEMENTED THEM. BASIC SOCIAL SCIENCE, FOCUS GROUPS AND ANALYSIS. WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WORKED AND WHAT DIDN'T WORK. THERE IS NOT A BAN ON FEDERAL FUNDING. WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FUNDING FOR IT. IN ADDITION, SOME OF THE OTHER BASIC THINGS PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT I THINK ARE IMPORTANT, CHILD ACCESS PREVENTION LAWS. THEY ARE NOT IMPLEMENTING EVENLY. WE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THEY ARE IMPLEMENTED EVERYWHERE. SUGGESTIVE TO WORK CERTAINLY. THIS MORNING IN SEATTLE, A FOUR YEAR OLD PICKED UP A GUN THAT WAS LOADED AND SHOT THEIR PREGNANT MOTHER IN THE FACE. TWO QUESTIONS WITH THAT. THIS HAPPENS A LOT. HUNDRED UNINTENTIONAL FIREARM DEATH BY INADVERTENT. WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IS IT IN OUR SOCIETY TO HAVE THAT FOUR YEAR OLD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO A LOADING GUN? HOW SERIOUS DO WE WANT TO BE ABOUT IT. WHY PEOPLE OWN GUNS ACROSS COMMUNITIES? WHY DOES THIS YOUNG FAMILY WITH A FOUR YEAR OLD AND PREGNANT MOTHER FEEL THEY NEED TO SLEEP WITH A LOADED GUN UNDER THEIR BED. WE'LL START TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW TO ADDRESS THIS BETTER AND TAKE MORE TIME AND RESOURCES. >> THANK YOU. READY FOR AUDIENCE QUESTIONS AND Q&A. E WANT TO REMIND OUR FOLKS ONLINE, QUESTIONS USING TWITTER AND USE #POLICYTALKS. I AM GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO TWO AMAZING FORD SCHOOL STUDENTS, SENIOR MARINA AND STEPHEN OLIPHANT WHO WILL HELP US. PROFESSOR AND I. >> HI, I AM A SENIOR HERE IN THE FORD SCHOOL. I DONE A LOT OF WORK BOTH INSIDE AND OUTSIDE OF A CLASSROOM ON ANTIGUN VIOLENCE. TWO SUMMERS AGO I WORKED IN D.C. WITH GIFFORDS, ANTIGUN VIOLENCE. >> I AM A SECOND YEAR GRADUATE STUDENT AND INTERN WITH DR. CUNNINGHAM'S GROUP. I THINK DR. METZEL TOUCHED ON THIS A BIT, ARE THERE MANY MEANINGFUL MEASURES THAT COULD SEE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT IN THE NEAR FUTURE? SHOULD WE EXPECT OR ADVOCATE FROM STATE TO STATE AND CITY TO CITY? >> I CAN GO FIRST. >> PLEASE. >> DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU MEAN BY NEAR FUTURE. NEAR FUTURE FOR ME IS NO. THAT GETS TO THE POINT, WE USE GUNS FOR POLITICAL PRIORITIES ON ACROSS THE SPECTRUM. SO SOMETHING YA KNOW THAT WILL COME ACROSS AS LIKE I BROUGHT THIS UP IN THE CLASS EARLIER, THERE IS A PHRASE I LEARNED COMMON SENSE X POLICY. WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT COMMON SENSE GUN POLICY, THIS ISN'T GOING TO WORK. WHAT IS COMMON SENSE TO YOU IS NOT GOING TO BE COMMON SENSE TO SOMEONE ELSE. HOWEVER I WOULD SAY -- YOU CAN HAVE LEGAL PRIORITY AT THE LOCAL LEVEL THAT MIGHT NOT MIRROR SOMETHING DONE IN ANOTHER STATE. OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE SEEN TIME AND AGAIN IT IS HELD UP IN COURT. THERE IS MERIT TO SOME STATES AND SOME CITIES HAVING DIFFERING GUN PRIORITIES. THAT COMES FROM THE RESEARCH WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. IT IS TIME TO DO THE RESEARCH THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY TALKING, ATTEMPTING TO STEER IN A CERTAIN DIRECTION. THAT RESEARCH IS LEADING INTO A SPECIFIC POLICY DIRECTION OR TRYING TO LEAN INTO THAT, BUT I DO THINK THAT THERE IS ROOM TO TALK ABOUT WHY IS A FAMILY OF FOUR KEEPING A LOADED HANDGUN UNDER THE MATTRESS? WHAT ARE THE PRIORITIES OF THAT COMMUNITY? AS POESED TO A COMMUNITY DIFFERENT, PEOPLE STILL HAVE LOADED GUNS UNDER THE MATTRESS EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE IN AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SOCIAL CONTEXT. THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID FOR DIFFERENT LOCALITIES HAVING DIFFERING LAWS. I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF THOSE LAWS, MOST RECENT SUPREME COURT CASE FOCUSSED ON NEW YORK GUN LAW. HAS TO DO WITH THE TRANSPORTATION OF GUNS. AND I THINK IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THE COURT HAS. THAT COULD RETRO THIS CONVERSATION SOME WHAT MOOT A LITTLE BIT. AT THE NEAR TERM, I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY GUN POLICY MOVE THAT CAN BE MADE ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL THAT WOULD GO THROUGH CONGRESS. BUMP STOCK BAN WAS SIGNED IN AND DONE VIA THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. OBVIOUSLY THAT IS GOING TO COURT. THAT IS ANOTHER MEANS OF CREATING A POLICY. DOESN'T INVOLVE CONGRESS. CONGRESS CAN'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT NOW. >> I'LL BE MUCH QUICKER. >> TAKE YOUR TIME. >> I THINK THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE MORE PALATABLE IN HOW WE GET TO A PLACE WHERE WE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT CAN BE DONE AND AROUND CHILDREN AND TEENS AND ACCESS LAWS. I THINK WE NEED TO START WITH THE PLACES THAT COULD HAVE AN IMMEDIATE AGREEMENT LIKE THAT. THERE IS MORE AGREEMENT ABOUT FOLKS AT RISK FOR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE. WE KNOW 50 WOMEN A MONTH DIE BY GUN BY THEIR PARTNER. EVERY MONTH IN THE UNITED STATES. WE CAN PROBABLY DO, THERE ARE SIMPLER PIECES AS A WAY TO START INROADS. AGAIN, WASHINGTON STATE STARTED, MASSIVE INCREASE IN AMOUNT OF PEOPLE ASKING FOR THE RESTAINING ORDERS TO BE PUT IN PLACE WITH FIREARMS. THEY HAVE TO BE DONE IN A WAY THAT IS ENFORCE M. WHEN THEY GO TO THE EXTRA RISK THEY ARE PUTTING THEMSELVES AT, LIKELY TO INCREASE ANGER OF THEIR PARTNER A FAIR AMOUNT THEY ARE PROTECTED BY THE LAW AND NOT HAVE THAT FEAR. THEN WE NEED TO STUDY THAT AND WE HAVE FOLKS COMBING THROUGH THOSE REQUESTS IN A QUALITATIVE WAY AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THEM. I THINK THOSE ARE THE EASIER LOWER HANGING FRUIT PLACES TO BEAGAIN. >> I AM CLEARLY A LIBERAL CENTERS DEMOCRAT. IT IS FUNNY I AM ABOUT TO MAKE AN ARGUMENT FOR STATES RIGHTS. >> FEDERALISM. IT IS A WONDER. >> I WILL SAY I WANT EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND THIS QUESTION. IT IS THE URGENT QUESTION THAT IS GOING TO FACE US. THE SUPREME COURT AS DECIDED TO TAKE UP A SEEMINGLY SMALL CASE IN NEW YORK. SOMETHING HUGE HAPPENED A COUPLE OF WEEKS, SUPREME COURT HASN'T TAKEN UP A CASE. EIGHT PEOPLE IN A SMALL GUN CLUB IN NEW YORK COULDN'T TAKE THEIR GUNS FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER. YOU WOULD THINK OH MY GOSH, WHATEVER, LETS THEM TAKE THEIR GUNS. DOES A CITY LIKE NEW YORK HAVE A RIGHT TO SET GUN POLICY IN THE CONTEXT OF NEW YORK CITY? THIS IS A GATEWAY DRUG TUS TO A MUCH BROADER ISSUE. DO REGENTS AND STATES HAVE THE ABILITY TO SET THEIR OWN POLICY? >> MISSOURI STRICTEST HANDGUN LAWS. YOU HAD TO GO TO THE SHERIFF. SEEMINGLY SMALL BILL THAT SAID DON'T HAVE TO GO IN PERSON. LED TO A MUCH BIGGER CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUE WHICH WAS DO STATES HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT? >> I FEEL LIKE THE ISSUE IS WHAT IS AT STAKE HERE. I URGE PEOPLE INTERESTED LOOK AT THE 2010 D.C. CASE. LIBERAL JUDGES, CONSERVATIVE JUDGES AND ONE JUDGE FAR TO THE RIGHT, SECOND AMENDMENT TRUMPS EVERYTHING ELSE. D.C. HAS NO RIGHT TO SET ANY LIMITATION. THIS WAS ABOUT AR 15ST IN D.C. JUDGE YOU MIGHT KNOW HIM, CAVANAUGH. WE HAVE PEOPLE ON THE SUPREME COURT WHO HAVE GONE ON RECORD IN THIS ISSUE. THIS QUESTION OF DOES A CITY LIKE NEW YORK, I AM FROM TENNESSEE, IF I GO TO NEW YORK, I CAN'T LOAD UP MY SUITCASE WITH A BUNCH OF GLOCKS. I BOUGHT A BUNCH OF STUFF AT BLOOMING DALES. I AM GOING TO OFF LOAD MY GUNS IN GUN MARKETING. LEADS TO UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES. CASE IN FRONT OF THE SUPREME COURT HAS POTENT SHL TO SHIFT GUN POLICY NOT IN THE SOUTH WHERE IT IS HAPPENING. IN AREAS LIKE LOS ANGELES AND NEW YORK THAT HAD THESE ISSUES. I AM THINKING ABOUT WHAT IT MUST HAVE BEEN LIKE TOTALLY ANTIABORTION AREA AND PEOPLE WERE SAYING ROW VS. WADE THING IS COMING DOWN THE PIKE AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE OUR OWN REGIONAL WAYS TO STOP IT. YOU LIMIT THE ABILITIES OF CITIES AND STATES. IF YOU ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO ONE ISSUE, IT IS WHAT HAPPENS IN THIS NEW YORK CASE. REALLY STOPPING THE ABILITY OF LOCALS FOR REALLY MAKING THEIR OWN POLICIES THAT WORK FOR THEM. THAT WAS UPLIFTING. >> NEXT QUESTION HAS TO DO WITH THE FRAMING OF THIS ISSUE AND HOW WE TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE. IF WE ARE NOT SAYING GUN CONTROL, WHAT ARE WE SAYING. ALSO HOW DO WE COMMUNICATE THE GOOD DATA ON THIS SUBJECT WHEN SOME DATA HAS BEEN CREATED BY SOME MORE DUBIOUS RESEARCH FIRMS AND BASICALLY JUST THE EFFECTIVE MESSAGING OF THIS ISSUE THAT LEADS TO IMPROVED PUBLIC SAFETY. >> I THINK SAFETY IS THE WORD, SAFETY IMPLIES THAT THE ITEM EXISTS AND WE ARE GOING TO WORK WITH ITEM AS IT IS IN SOME FORM OR ANOTHER TO MAKE IT MORE SAFE. THAT IS THE FRAME THE LESS THREATENING FRAME. THAT IS THE MESSAGING I WOULD WILDLY INCUR. WHAT IS THE SECOND PART OF YOUR QUESTION? >> I GUESS ABOUT THE DATA. >> DATA. IT IS IMPORTANT TO WORK FROM THE BEST DATA WE HAVE. THE WAY WE ARE GOING TO GET THE MOST ACCURATE DATA IS TO HAVE FUNDED RESEARCH. IF YOU ARE TOLD YOU HAVE TERRIBLE CANCER, YOU WANT THE NIH TO HAVE INVESTIGATED IT. YOU WANT TO BE CONFIDENT. WE DON'T HAVE HIGH QUALITY RESEARCH FOR FIREARMS. WITH ANYTHING DATA CAN BE MISCONSTRUED, TESTED. WE MOVE WHATEVER FIELD OF RESEARCH FORWARD TO THE BEST POSSIBLE WAY WHICH IS DIFFICULT ON A GOOD DAY. WE ARE NOT IN A GOOD DAY FOR FACTS. >> UM, YEAH, I WOULD SAY THAT HOW WE COMMUNICATE ABOUT GUNS, EVEN WHEN WE DO, IS I THINK TELLING WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GUNS AS A POLICY ISSUE. WE START TALKING ABOUT GUN POLICY WHEN A SOMETHING TERRIBLE HAPPENS, SPECIFICALLY A MASS SHOOTING. WE SAID THAT AFTER PARKLAND. THAT IS THE TIME TO HAVE A CONVERSATION. TECHNICALLY WE SHOULD BE TALK ABOUT GUN POLICY AT ALL TIMES. NEVER A BETTER TIME TO TALK ABOUT THE REAL ISSUES PREVENTING GUN VIOLENCE WITHIN THE STRICT STRUCTURES OF OUR SYSTEM. IT IS SUCH A GOOD FRAMING, IT IS ONE NRA USES, WITH REGARDS TO SCHOOL SHOOTINGS, SCHOOL SHIELD PROGRAM, EFFORT TO ENCOURAGE SCHOOLS TO TAKE PART IN DEFENSE MECHANISMS. GETTING RID OF WINDOWS IN SCHOOLS, ALSO ARMING TEACHERS WHICH IS INCREDIBLY CONTROVERSIAL. IDEA OF EDUCATION AND SAFETY BEING THE FRAME AND TALKING ABOUT IT. I WAS GLAD HOW YOU SAID WE DON'T SAY CAR CONTROL. WE RECOGNIZE CARS AREN'T GOING AWAY. I THINK THERE IS AN IDEA, I THINK WHAT THIS HAS TO DO WITH HOW COMMUNITIES DIFFER. MY PARENTS HATE GUNS. I HADN'T TOUCHED A GUN UNTIL I WENT TO A RANGE IN VIRGINIA. THIS IS A THING PEOPLE DO. A LOT OF PEOPLE IN JOURNALISM COME FROM A LONG RUNNING FAMILY TRADITION OF GUNS AND GUN OWNERSHIP AND CAN'T IMAGINE WHY WOULD WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT GUNS BEING IN HOMES. YOU ARE COMING FROM RADICALLY DIFFERENT CONTENTS AND NO CROSS OVER. BRUJ COULD BE TO TALK ABOUT SAFETY AND TALK ABOUT ISSUES WHEN THEY ARE NOT SPURRED BY NEWS. THERE IS AN ARGUMENT, THE DO SOMETHING POLICY. TY CLI IT DOESN'T GO THE WAY YOU HAD HOPE. REACTING, NOT NECESSARILY TO EVENTS, BUT ONGOING ISSUES LIKE THE CRISIS OF INTIMATE VIOLENCE WE HAVE POINTED OUT AND THE ONGOING ISSUES THAT CAUSED BY ACCESS TO GUNS FOR CHILDREN AND TEENS. THINK ABOUT SAFETY AND THINK ABOUT HOW TO COMMUNICATE THAT ACROSS LINES. I AM NOT MAKING AN ARGUMENT AGAINST EXPERTISE. WE NEED MORE RESEARCH, MORE FUNDING. I THINK THE MOMENT WE ARE IN IS ONE IN WHICH THE DANGER IS NOT ABOUT THE LACK OF EXPERTISE. WE HAVE IT. WE NEED MORE FUNDING. IT IS ABOUT VACUUMS AND SILOS, ANY POLICY INTERVENTION NEEDS TO ALSO, POLICY SCHOLARS AND CRITICAL SKALS HAVE TO BE WORKING TOGETHER IN A PARTICULAR WAY. EVEN THE BEST POLICY INTERVENTION RACES THE RISK, I THINK OF NOT LOOKING AT THE WAYS IN WHICH WE ARE NOT LIVING IN THIS MOMENT WHERE I LEARNED THE APPLE FALLS FROM THE TREE, THEREFORE I AM GOING TO DO ALL THESE THINGS. WE ARE LIVING IN AN INCREDIBLY ANXIOUS MOMENT. WE NEED TO COMBINE DIFFERENT EXPERTISE. A LOT OF THIS IS GOING TO PLAY OUT. ALSO OTHER FORMS OF EXPERTISE, HISTORY, ALL THESE OTHER FAM TOS. NO. 1 THAT IS THE ISSUE. NO. 2, JUST BACK TO JANE. I THINK THE NRA HAS BEEN A DOMINANT VOICE IN THIS PARTICULAR DOMAIN FAR MORE THAN ANYBODY REALIZES. IT IS NOT JUST HOW THEY RECOGNIZE, THEY HAVE POLITICIANS WHO ARE ALIGNED IN THEIR INTEREST AND JUDGES. IT IS ALSO ABOUT THE WAYS THEY TAP INTO THESE ANXIETIES. GUNS BECOME THE ANSWER. PERFECT EXAMPLE IS NRA AFTER THE BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTEST. ALL THESE NRA ADS AND SHOWING THE HISTORY OF URBAN UNREST AND NEWARK AND THINGS LIKE THAT. NRA SPOKES PEOPLE SHOWING THE SIGN OF THE CLINCHED FIST WHICH WAS THE SIGN AT THE TIME. THIS IS OUR MOMENT. WITHOUT THAT KIND OF CROSS DISCIPLINARY EXPERTISE, WE ARE AT RISK OF THOSE POLARIZING MOMENTS. >> THERE WASN'T A BALANCING VOICE ACROSS THE VAST MEDICAL COMMUNITY OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS. PHYSICIANS WOULDN'T SAY THE WORD GUN OR NRA AT ALL. THAT TIDE IS CHANGING NOW SOME ARE MORE WILLING TO SPEAK UP THIS IS MY MOVEMENT. WITH THAT YOU HAVE A TIDE OF VOICES WHO CAN BEGIN TO SPEAK FROM THAT HEALTH PERSPECTIVE, WE ARE 100% SILENT. I AGREE THERE ARE MASS SHOOTINGS, REALLY INTERESTING LIGHTNING ROD FOR COUNTRY TO GAIN DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CONVENTION. OUR CALL TO ATTENTION. TO BE USED AS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A DISCUSSION ABOUT A DAILY TOLL OF VIOLENCE. THAT STUDENT VOICE BALANCING, VERY STRONG CONSERVATIVE VOICES WITH ONE PITCH FOR A LONG TIME. WE ARE SEEING THE OTHER VOICES. IT IS GOING TO TAKE A CULTURE SHIFT TO BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT THIS. >> SO MUCH OF THE ATTENTION IS ON MASS SHOOTINGS. WHY HAS HASN'T -- SHOULD WE LOOK AT THIS ISSUE TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE. >> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SUICIDE, WE TALK AB{UP}ABOUT INTENT. I LIKE PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT THE N MECHANISM OF THE INJURY. TO GET AT PREVENTION STRATEGIES, WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT BOTH. WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT SUICIDE AND SUICIDE PREVENTION. EVIDENCE OVERWHELMINGLY SHOWS US, FOR EXAMPLE, ADOLESCENT IS IMPULSIVE AND HAS ACCESS TO A FIREARM THEY CAN COMPLETE THAT INTENT. THEY LIKELY WILL NOT GO ON TO SUBSTITUTE AND FIND ANOTHER MEANS. THAT HAS BEEN SHOWN OTHER AND OVER AGAIN. WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT SUICIDE. YES BETTER ACCESS TO MENTAL HEALTH TREATMENT ALSO WHY WE HAVE INCREASED DEPRESSION AND HOPELESSNESS. WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT GUNS AND IMMEDIATE LETHAL ACCESS TO THAT MECHANISM TO THAT INJURY. >> HOW MUCH MORE TIME DO WE HAVE? THIS IS MY ENTIRE BOOK IS ABOUT THIS. I HAVE A BOOK COMING OUT IN MARCH. IT IS NOT JUST INTEND IT IS ACCESS. I GOT DRUNK, MY WIFE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR AND FIRED FROM MY JOB, AND THERE IS A GUN HERE H. IF YOU SHOOT YOURSELF FATAL IN 96%. IS THERE A GUN AROUND? IT IS NOT LINKED TO MENTAL HEALTH. WHEN YOU LOOK ACROSS SWATH OF GUN SUICIDE, LARGELY WHITE MEN LINKED TO DEMOGRAPHIC TRENDS AND GUN OWNERSHIP. IT IS A QUESTION OF ACCESS. WHY IS THE GUN THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. TIES INTO OTHER QUESTIONS WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. YOU CAN'T JUST SEE GUN SUICIDE OR FIREARM RELATED MORBIDITY AND MORTALITY TREND IN A VACUUM. THE MINUTE WE LINK IT DOWN AND THIS ONE MOMENT, THIS PARTICULAR ANECDOTE, YOU ARE LOSING, I THINK THE BIGGER QUESTION. I HAVE A PIECE COMING OUT PUBLIC OPEN ACCESS NATURE THING. I ARGUED RESEARCH I LOVE TO SEE IS THERE A PUBLIC HEALTH BENEFIT TO OWNING A GUN? IS THERE A PLEASURE? I DON'T ASCRIBE TO TO THAT PERSONALLY. IF ONE GUY ON THE SUBWAY HAS A GUN, EVERYBODY HAS A GUN. WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS SUBLIME ABOUT GUN OWNERSHIP? WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAVE THE FRUSTRATING PUSH AND PULL. PUBLIC HEALTH ONE HAND AND GUN OWNERSHIP ON THE OTHER HAND. WE NEVER SEEM TO GO ANYWHERE. >> WHEN WE ARE TALKING, QUESTION OF SUICIDE IS LIKE YOU SAID QUESTION OF ACCESS AND MECHANISMS. I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING WITH RISING SUICIDE RATE, ABILITY TO COMPLETE THE ACT IN A SENSE. THAT HAPPENS YOU KNOW, I HAVE LOST FRIENDS TO SUICIDE BY GUN. THAT IS A CONVERSATION THAT PLAYS INTO IT. ISSUE OF GENOMES NEEDS TO BE PART OF A LARGER CONVERSATION. GUNS BECOME A TEST FOR POLITICAL PRIORITI PRIORITII PRIORITIES. WE CAN'T REMOVE GUNS. I TALK TO A LOT OF GUN OWNERS AND HOW THEY TALK ABOUT GUNS IS SO DIFFERENT FROM HOW THE FOLKS I TALK TO AT EVERYTOWN OR MANS DEMAND TALK ABOUT GUNS. THEY HAVE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT -- YOU WERE ABLE TO COMPLETE THE ACT BECAUSE YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THAT. YOU PROBABLY OWNED THE GUN FOR ENTIRELY SEPARATE REASONS BEFOREHAND. THIS WAS NOT NECESSARILY A PART OF THE PLAN WHEN YOU GOT THIS GUN. WHY DID YOU GET THE GUN IN THE FIRST PLACE? WHAT CONTEXT DID YOU HAVE? IT IS AN INTERESTING ISSUE. IT IS GONE OWNERS VERSES PUBLIC HEALTH. WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BRIDGE AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS BY WHICH MECHANISMS IN WHICH PEOPLE ARE ENDING THEIR LIVES. THEN WE CAN START GETTING INTO WHAT THAT GUN MEANS AND WHAT GUN USAGE MEANS OVERALL. >> THANK YOU SO MUCH. I AM SO SORRY, BAD NEWS WE ARE OUT OF TIME FOR TODAY. GOOD NEWS, WE HAVE REFRESHMENTS IN OUR GREAT HALL. WE INVITE YOU COME AND ENJOY US. EVERYONE FROM THE AUDIENCE COMES DOWN HERE AND PANELEST CAN NEVER GET DOWN TO THE RECEPTION. WE CAN CONTINUE CONVERSATIONS, FOLLOW THESE WONDERFUL PEOPLE ON TWITTER, AND PLEASE JOIN ME IN THANKING THEM FOR A PROVOCATIVE AND WONDERFUL CONVERSATION.