Good afternoon. I'm Barry Rabe, the professor of public 1 policy at the Gerald R. Ford school at the university of Michigan. On behalf of our deign Michael Barr who is going us today and the faculty and staff and students of Ford school it's a great pleasure to welcome you to the policy talks with Maryland governor Larry Hogan. Governor Hogan and I will be discussing his recently plushed book, still standing, surviving cancer and the politics that divide. This book touches on many important issues, including the corona virus pandemic, the up the coming presidential election, the fight for racial equality. And we'll discuss many of these topics during our discussion today. This event is also part of the Ford school of conversations across defense series, where we try to highlight for our community the kind of discourse necessary for creating constructive policy across various atmospheres of defense. Before we dive into our conversation, allow me to briefly introduce Governor Hogan. Governor Larry Hogan is not a career politician, while he was born into a political family. He spent nearly hi entire career as a small businessman until 2014. At that point he start change Maryland, the largest non-partisan grassroots citizen organization in Maryland history and he was ultimately elected governor, only the second republican governor of Maryland in the last half century. He was reelected overwhelmingly in 2018, only the second Maryland governor in republican history to win two consecutive terms. National rankings consistently show Governor Hogan to be one of the most popular governor anywhere in the United States, and just last year in 2019 his gubernatorial colleagues named him -- elected him to be chair of the national governor's association. Just a couple of quick notes about format. We will indeed have some time at the end of this conversation about -- to take audience questions. We've actually received some already but you can also submit questions while Governor Hogan and I are talking to live chat an YouTube or tweet your questions to #policytalks. With that, Governor Hogan, a very warm welcome to you. Thank you so much for being with us. >> Thank you so much. It's wonderful to be with you. I appreciate the opportunity. >> It is not obligatory to have a University of Michigan tie, it is obviously an added perk, and that is the case, your daughter's Jamie's experience at the university of Michigan, we have a great photograph there of two members -- >> Yeah. Yes both my beautiful daughters there. Jamie graduated in 2002 and Julie the younger daughter graduated in 2008. Go blue. Very passionate university of Michigan fans and I got the chance to visit them and go to the big house and tour the campus. And my youngest daughter Julie actually lives in 2 Ann Arbor today, she and her husband and her beautiful granddaughter. So I do have that connection. >> One other part of the university of Michigan type relationship that emerged unexpectedly to me in reading the book and your father Larry Hogan senior, former member of congress who I actually first saw as a high school student speaking in the house judiciary committee. Particularly his relationship with Gerald Ford as members of congress and then with the Watergate transition, can you tell us about that part of your background and his experience with our most distinguished alum, Gerald Ford? >> Sure. Well Barry, that makes you and I similar in able because I was in high school also at the same time. It's -- my dad, who I'm named after and who I'm really proud of, who I learned a lot about integrity and public service from, he served on the house judiciary committee during the impeachment of Richard Nixon and was the first republican to come out for Nixon's impeachment and the only republican in the con to vote for all three articles of impeachment, so in that respect he had a lot to do with Gerald Ford becoming vice president and they be vice president. But I as a kid, high school kid, got the opportunity to meet later president Ford but at the time it was minority leader of the house representatives, he and his family. I admired him greatly. My father was very close with him as a member of the republican caucus. During that congress, there was George Bush, the elder George Bush and jack Kemp, my dad were all part of that caucus that Gerald Ford was the leader of. So I really got to watch him like you as a high school person following that. That whole -- I talk about this in my book, a little bit about Watergate and the decisions of the house judiciary committee. That's probably the thing that my father is most remembered for. But he had a very close relationship with Gerald Ford and as a young person, I really looked up to him and admired him. >> So one of the things that's often associated with Gerald Ford is bipartisanship. That's a word you use a lot in this book. Even linking I would to the notion of a purple surf board, bringing red and blue together, if you will. And yet in times like these, is it even possible with the exception of a few unique cases perhaps such as yours even talking about bipartisanship and what that mean, when we use that term are we really talking about a historic moment that is likely not to be revisited as we look forward? >> I sure hope that it's not just historic look backwards about nostalgia about how good things used to be. I really believe and hope that we can have more of a return to civility and bipartisanship. I know it's hard to imagine nowadays in this heated political environment that we have and that with all the divisive politics. It seems as if the entire political system is broken and people are just frustrated and angry and I really -- but I think most people in America really would like to see people work together across party lines, republicans and democrats to -- obviously you can be passionate about the things you care about and fight for the things you care about but without demonizing the other side and that was something Gerald Ford was known for and it's something obviously my father set an example. But I think back then you would passionately disagree with things on the floor of congress but afterward they will be friendly with each other and they would have dinner together. It was not the politics of destruction and demonizing the other side. Sometimes today it seems like people are more interested in winning arguments than actually solving problems. So I was elected in the bluest state in America overwhelmingly, 70 percent democrat, and I think the reason why people seem to support with a we've been doing is we have worked across the aisle in a bipartisan way to get things done, and I think against who have done that in other states have also been successful, and I think it's what most people want. They just want politicians to tell it like it is and trayful work on fixing the serious problems that face us instead of just playing politics all the time. >> One of the issues before us is the up coming election and both you and your dad took political risks by challenging an incumbent from your own party. Where so so few republicans given controversy surrounding Donald Trump taken similar steps? In your book you talk about many of your republican colleagues stay vent, swear allegiance and blindly toe the line. >> I had to deal with that exact situation two years ago when I was reelected in 2008 with Donald Trump as president, with all the divisiveness in the country in what was considered to be a huge blue wave in one of the bluest states in the country. I won on overwhelming reelection but there were certainly head winds that I had to deal with because the president had a 29 percent approval rating and there were a majority of Marylanders who said they would vote against every single republican to send a message to Donald Trump. And I overcame that by just being direct and telling it like it is, and to me it doesn't matter whether an idea comes from the democratic side or the republican side, I look for the best ideas in solving the problems. I stood up and spoke out when I disagreed with the president which a lot of people didn't. I think the reason why it doesn't happen more often, and I was rewarded by the voters of my state who said they liked the independence and the bipartisanship, they liked the tone and the civility. I tried to focus on what we were accomplishing in Maryland 4 rather than getting dragged into whatever tweet there was that day or whatever divisive angry food fight they were having in the capitol. But I think this is what people should be looking to the candidates themselves and not the party label. The people in my state, it's only 26 percent republican but I keep getting elected because people are willing to cross over, they're not just voting for a political party, they're voting for the problem. And that's the way it should be, you should vote for the person that would do the best job and blindly loyal to the party is not the way to go. But the reason why people don't take the stand, obviously, that I afraid. They don't want to be tweeted about, they don't want to be attacked by the base of the party. They don't want to have somebody running against them in a primary. I wasn't afraid of that for a couple of relationships, one I learned from my dad in the 70s with Richard Nixon, but it wasn't easy for him. The party came after him pretty hard for standing up and doing what he thought was best for the country. But in retrospect I learned that lesson very well. >> You did give some thought to running as a primary challenger. You had a lot of people not just from your state saying you really ought to jump in this year and you talk about this in the book, almost like George -- we'll refer to you as a beer keg with attitude, a unique phrase in American politics. But if you had mounted that campaign, how would you have confronted a president in your observe party mindful of these issues of bipartisanship and civility in what would have be been a difficult situation? >> I never really made any attempt at running for president or challenging the president. I sounds silly and it sounds like it's just spin but the truth is this sort of bubbled on on it own. When I was able to win -- we lost governors races across the country. We lost the senate, relost seats in the house, republicans were getting beat across the country in 2018 and I was overwhelmingly reelected and I won the support of women, I did incredibly well among black voters and people said wow, what is that all about? How did he accomplish that? In my inaugural address, my second inaugural I talked about these concerns about the broken politics and the divisiveness in the Washington and I think Jeb bush was introducing me, he said I was the antithesis of what was going on in Washington and people started encouraging me to consider it. I really didn't think there was a path to winning a primary in this year's race because the republican base was pretty solidly the primary voterrers were pretty solidly behind the president. Having said that I do think there's a majority of people in America, certain polls have shown, almost 70 percent of the people who are 5 frustrated with the democratic party moving too far to the left. The republican party is too far to the right, and most people are somewhere in the middle and they really do want to see good government and civility and people working together, which is why they've rewarded me and people like Charlie Baker, the republican governor of Massachusetts, who we have to work across the aisle. But I didn't think so it was possible in 2020. Even though people may vote for a person like in a general, I didn't think I could win against a sitting president. >>> I would like to turn to a couple hot button policy issues, racism, policing, public safety. You were in the very early stages of your first term as governor when Freddie Gray died and riots broke out in Baltimore. That was several years ago, these issues of course persist and, and I've seen similar kinds of issues emerge. How do we deal constructively with these kind of questions going forward and what are you thoughts about the learning experience in Maryland as these issues emerge in so many parts ousters with deep problems and concerns? >> There's no question these are deep problems and concerns that need to be addressed and the death of George Floyd, the murder of George Floyd, really brought a lot of this to the surface and brought some very I think constructive peaceful protests, in some cases though it's resulted in violence in some of our major cities. I do have experience with with because as you mentioned I had just been elected governor, I had only been governor for 89 days when after the tragic death of Freddie Gray, the beginning of Black Lives Matter movement. It was after Ferguson, then came Baltimore, but I had been governor for just a few months and the worst violence in 47 years broke out in our largest city in just the first few hours, 400 some businesses and homes were destroyed and burned and loots and 120 some police and firefighters were injured and hospitalized and the city was out of control, and the stipes were crying out for help. And so I actually as a new governor called up the National Guard and sent in additional state police officers to back up the beleaguered city and we tried our best to stop the violence while continuing to protect the peaceful protesters and the citizens of Baltimore, and I went and walked the streets of Baltimore for a solid week meeting with community leaders, going to Freddie Gray's neighborhood. Walking the streets and meeting with the NAACP and meeting with faith-based leaders, and my goal was to stop the violence while trying to listen to the real concerns and to start a dialogue and let people know that we were going to keep the city safe but we were also going to try to address some of these issues, and I think some of the lessons I talk about in my book, I wish 6 some of the governors and mayors had read the book because I think we found the right balance of addressing some of the issues and lowering the temperature while allowing the legitimate frustrations and protests to take place. But not allowing people to be injured or property to be destroyed. I and I think we've got to look at this issue, we've got to address the problems of systemic racism but we've also got to stop the violence in our cities. >> It's 9/11. We think about issues of security. Not just terrorism but at this point in time it's one of the reasons we aren't meeting in person today, is the Covid-19 related pandemic. Governors, including Maryland, give a lot of authority, constitutionally, have a lot of constitutional authority to pursue public health strategies and yet how prepared were you for this kind of a public health crisis given all of your other responsibilities including the topic we just discussed and how do you think of the role of states like Maryland versus other governmental entities in working in a space like this? What have you learned in the pandemic err are in M.D. that you can share with us? >> It's a great question and I've learned a great deal. This is the most challenging crisis that most of us have ever had to deal with and it sort of hit us from out of the blue. You're right, we have as governors a lot of day-to-day responsibilities dealing with a global pandemic and an economic collapse that happens over a several month period of time is not one that too many people were prepared for. I think the federal government was caught unprepared, so but so were states and hospital systems. As governor for five and a half years, we had been doing table top exercises on what happens if a pandemic breaks out but it's one thing to deal wit as an abstract exercise and it's another thing to have it happen realtime when all the citizens of our state, their lives are at risk and this thing is spreading like crazy. I was in the position, I chaired the nation's governors and worked across the aisle with the governor of Michigan and all the other governors across America in a very bipartisan way. The governors, I believe stepped up and led in in crisis, at the beginning we were frustrated with the response of the federal government and their preparedness and they've made some improvements since then. But the role of the states has been more important than other. All different types of states across the country had to step up and really may be life and death decisions. I think I enacted 60 some executive orders in a matter of a month or so declaring a state of emergency, closing schools. Shutting down parts of our economy. Taking actions to keep people safe. Setting up procurement systems where we had to acquire hundreds of millions of dollars worth of tests and personal 7 protection equipment in a very strained market. So it really takes federal and state governments working together. I think we did learn some less sons and I think the federal government is catching up to speed and I think make we showed some of our friends in Washington the importance of bringing people together as you were talking about earlier and avoiding the politics as best you can, and this is a case where our job was to -- our most minute job was to keep the citizens of our state safe. >> I wasn't surprised in reading your book by how much discussion there was of your linkages in working with the president, the vice president and leaders in Washington, D.C., but there is a lot of engagement that you've had with other states with bilateral relations with individual governors, I've learned but there's also a unique wrinkle in your case where you engage in foreign diplomacy. You visit South Korea, can you tell us about the what it's like to work with other governors on an issue like this that truly crosses boundaries but also open up in an area and that is working as a head of a state with a head of another country to try to make this -- >> It was an unusual circumstance to say the least but again we were in this crisis and it's very constrained world market and because of the failures of the administration at a federal level to have developed early on a national testing strategy and acquire all of these supplies and the thing to keep people safe, each state was out there on their own trying to compete with one another and with the federal government and other countries around the world for these things that were not easily attainable. So back in March after not being able to acquire tests in America I spent 22 days negotiating with South Korean companies after contacting the Korean am because door and putting us in touch with president moon and their administration and we acquired a half a million coronavirus test kits from South Korea and we chartered a passenger plane, Korean air to fly these test kits into Baltimore international tooter. And at the time we made this acquisition, we've now done 2.1 million tests but at the time of this acquisition of 500,000 tests was more than the top five states in America combined and it was very unusual but it was critically important to our long-term testing strategy. But the work with the governors that you mentioned, I led 50 some teleconferences or zoom meetings like this with all of the the nation's governors and the coronavirus task force so there was more cooperation and more interaction between the governors than probably the last 20 years added together in a few months. And also we yesterday just announced a compact that I put together with ten states, with the Rockefeller foundation to acquire 5 million 15 minute very 8 rapid tests, and again this was states coming together and I put this compact with Rockefeller and brought the other governors together, five republicans and five democrats so we're continuing to lead and work across the aisle to get things done. >> And ho widely is this strategy for states to work collaboratively. The other other I'm aware of is REGGI, the regional greenhouse gas initiative which involves now 11 or 12 states, a regional carbon cap and trade zone, are is a lot of the work of governors working across the state border and boundaries? >> That's a really interesting question. I think REGGI is a great example of it and I believe we started out with eight or nine states and we were one of the original ones but I worked hard to get my neighbors to the south, Virginia and Pennsylvania to join in us with in the original green house gas initiative, which is a great example, and I think there are other examples but states are making a lot of decisions on their own but we're also realizing that working across borders and working crime lab it's collaboratively, there are a lot of regional compacts that are being formed on different topics and issues and I think it's a new flexing of the power of the states and the power of the states working together. >> The question then I would like to put to you next is drawing on the experiences you've had in all of these areas. How do we begin to rethink federal versus state responsibilities? Another really interesting book that was published earlier this year by Donald Kettle talks about divided states of America and makes the argument that the time is right for a fundamental rethink of what state and federal responsibilities entrail. Are we at that point? Again since you've been able to work so much at the state level but also have been thinking about is this larger federal or national context, how do we reinvent federal itch there a state house perspective so deal with these really hard problems. >> I believe we may be at a turning point, and I don't think it can the chain overnight but I think we've already started to move in an incremental way toward more power to the states states taking on more things that they didn't used to do. Chairing the national governor's association, typically this was not a very active association. The governors were members of this group and they have a staff in Washington and they just -- never really came together as a group of governors making real decisions on big issues in a body, but through in pandemic, over a six month period of time we game like a governing body and pulled together and got states to weigh in and push the federal government to utilize the 9 defense production act and push for them to step up their testing capabilities and push them on stimulus packages the cares act and lobbied very strongly our friends in the house and senate and the administration to get things done. So I think the power to change the relationship between -- addressing this issue, how is federalism going to change? I don't know how or when it's all going to take place but I think we're already seeing -- there's been too much power in Washington where most people think nothing ever gets done, quite frankly, and there's equal blame to go around op both sides of the aisle. Again, people aren't looking for solutions, they're just trying to win political arguments. And things are getting done in the states, we're kind of the laboratories of innovation and democracy and governors are getting things done, and they're frustrated, the governors are just as frustrated as the average citizen that Washington seems to be broken and I think the power and visibility of the governors is the highest it's ever been been, and voters trust their governors more than they trust the government or congress, and I think they're closer to their problem, and they realize that every day we get up to make sure things are running and things are getting done and we're not just making political arguments all day. >> So are there specific areas where you would make the case for a decentralizing or shifting regulatory authority or funding from Washington to states. Which policy areas or topics are especially ripe for the sort of thing you're talking about? >> I think just in general moat governors on both sides on the aisle would agree that when you're closer to the problem and -- for example, the stuff on cares anxiety was great. The federal government had a role to play. They have the printing press, they have the money that we needed to get out but the states are the ones that are implementing it. Like, we're the ones -- we do all the administering the assistance to small businesses, some of the funding came from Washington but we're the ones that went out there on the front lines to get things done and make sure that we were trying to protect the failing small business owners who were suffering. The federal government's investing and pushing really hard on a vaccine, we're getting things done in the states. But I think more both regulatory and financial, if more of that concern done closer to the people, I think you can run things more efficiently and get things done in a faster way. Not to say there isn't a role for the federal government, obviously they're critically more by I think the states need to have more power, have more money and decision making pushed down to the state level. >> And do you see any signs in Washington that legislators 10 from one or both parties are really interested in this idea and that could actually become something that would build a broader base of support or are we talking about a fringe idea that is still largely a conceptual alternative? >> Well, so I would say neither one of those. It's not a fringe idea because I think it's what most people agree with, not just the the governors but the average person would probably agree with that. But there's not a lot of people in Washington that want to willingly give up power and because of the divisive politics that we have today and there's a lot of reason for it but it has to do with gerrymandering and the people in congress, there aren't very many people who are willing to work together on both sides. So changing Washington is probably the most frustrating thing that I can think of and it's probably what frustrates most people in Americas, that we don't ever seem to be solving anything. But I don't think it's a fringe idea, I think it's important idea but trying the push anything through congress, especially when you're talking about giving up power. I've been focused on non-partisan redistricting to address this issue of gerrymandering. But you can't get people to vote to give up their own power, that's just very hard to do. >> We have a lot of students today and you graciously agreed to meet later with a small set of Ford students which we're very grateful for. >> Looking forward to it. >> You also talk about what as a governor and political leader you use and need to make good policy decisions, you say at one point normal people don't read policy papers. And most politicos don't either. We love to read them, we may like to write them. What advice would you offer for constructive engagement for those in an academic community, students, others to play a constructive role in advancing excellence in public policy in time and era? >> Sure, no, I'm a big believer in the importance of public policy and I didn't mean to inch subtle any of the 40s. I was involved in a group call American public policy institute where we were putting together these incredible policy papers about how to solve all the problems of our state and we thought they were really interesting, and the people who took the time, people that were the most interested and most involved thought it was really great works we were putting out but it's not normal people, but the average person, the average -- if you're trying the convince the general public, I'm not sure what the percentage is but it's pretty low about the percentage of people that are going to read the policy paper SOSes I took that great policy works that we had done and then tried to with any change Maryland non-partisan organization put it 11 into a way that we could communicate with the average voter who really is focused on their day-to-day lives and is not spending a lot of their free time either thinking about orb reading the policy papers, so I think somehow boiling down the ideas and the thoughts about how we solve problem, how we come up with solutions to issues but then boiling it down to something that you can communicate to the average voter I think is important if we're going to try to bring about change, it's not just going to be you and I and the 40s that are going to have to hear these ideas, right. >> We'll continue that conversation separately but point well taken. One last question of mine and then I would likes the turn to questions from the folks who are watching today. One big surprise to me in reading your book was how funny it was and how the humor that you use was not just darts throw up at your opponents but often at yourself, can you say more how you think of humor and using it self-directed for political purposes in an era where humor is only used when weaponizing against someone else, humor in politics? >> First of all it wasn't a well thought out strategy, I think I should try to use humor to reach a political end. It's just my personality so I wrote the book as if I were just talking to my friends and with me I think One of the reasons I've been successful in politics. People say to me all the time, I don't agree with you on all the issues but I think you're telling it like it is and you're a genuine person, you're just like us and that you really do care. And I just trying to be very natural and I think there's a lot of distrust or mistrust with people in political office that there's a lot of spin, and a lot of people very scripted. But I think what people really want is somebody that's genuine and a straight shooter and telling it likes it is and that seeps to resonate with a lot of people. And I am I guess -- humor, I joke a lot with my friends and staff and anybody I come into contact with and I don't hide that from the public so I'll be joking at a press conference or in the book. And I think people do -- sometimes instead of the angry rhetoric, a little self-deprecating humor can take the edge of a discussion and make people relate to you better. I think it's about being genuine. >> And clearly the element looms large in your political style as reflected earlier in your comment. Can you say a word or two about how the pandemic era has affected your approach to politics where increasingly engagement is through zoom rather than what you really steam to like which is going and meeting with people in their community sentence. >> That's so true. It's the thing I've been so frustrated because I am a people person at heart. There shall a lot of things I don't like about politics but the one thing I do like is I get to meet a lot of people. I love listening to people and I love meeting people and I would not only walk the streets of Baltimore and hug people whose homes were burned out or listen to people who were frustrated and angry and protesters but I love shaking hands and going to a ravens game or orioles game. But doing everything on zoom is very hard the get used to. , and even when I'm out now you complaint shake hands orb get close to people. I'm having more meetings because of zoom, you can't travel. I would love to be in Michigan or Ann Arbor meeting with folks. You really lose the human touch when you're not seeing somebody face-to-face and interacting. >> And who would have thought in the middle of September the Baltimore orioles and the Detroit tigers would be in competition and yet we can't have a beer and watch those games. >> That's true. We haven't lost as many because we're not playing as many. >> The teams are statistically tied. Time for what some of our colleagues and friends are asking and the first question is to describe some of the policies that you've implemented this year, most proud of. But also some that you're not so proud of. >> That's a good question. For the ones that I'm proud of, we've accomplished a heck of a lot. So I first ran for governor -- I was a small business owner who had never held elected office before, although I knew a little bit About politics and I cared about our state. Our state raised taxes 43 times in a row and it caused economic clappings, taxpayers and businesses were fleeing our state so the reason I ran for governor is to try to turn that the economy around, to try to pit more people back to work, to relieve the burden that was on struggling Marylanders and small businesses and grow our economy and that was our focus, we've been very successful at that. I haven't had a single tax increase the five years I've been this governor. We have went from 49th to in the top ten, we had the greatest economic turn around in America. That's been somewhat hurt by the pandemic, we're like everyone else, people are suffering but our economy is doing about 25 percent better than the rest of the country and our unemployment is lower than 35 other states. So helping people, growing our economy, putting more people to work, more jobs than ever before in the history of the state, more businesses open than ever before and we're honing to get back to that after our economic recovery. But other issues as well.On criminal justice reform I was one of the earliest and we had one of the most progressive efforts to reform our criminal justice system. We passed justice reinvestment act together with the overwhelmingly democratic legislature, bother houses and it really was a bipartisan effort where we passed things like the second chance act, we reduced our prison population, we were number one in the country. We lowered sentences for things like possession, we tried to refocus -- many people were in our criminal justice system and our correctional facilities were all dealing with substance abuse and mental health issues so we spent more money on getting them the help they need with treatment programs and mental health counseling and we tore done the Baltimore city jail. But we really focused on -- saved us money in the correctional facility skit helped a lot of people get out from incarceration, so it was really a run and democratic idea. On health care, we -- when Washington was broken and we had democrats saying we have to keeping Obamacare exactly the way it is and we don't want to change anything and we had republicans saying let's throw it all out because the costs are are too high, we came together, republicans and democrats with some very creative health insurance policies that lowered -- we kept everyone covered, expanded our coverage for hundreds of thousands of people, but also lowered the health care insurance rates dramatically by I think 25 percent over a two year period for the first time in ten years, so we tried to address both problem SOSes folks that were struggling to pay their health insurance coverage and the folks that were not getting covered. So those are a couple of examples. I mean, I could go on. We've put record funding into education. The Chesapeake is the cleanest it's been in history. So we have a lot of things we are proud of and none of it would get done without republicans and democrats working together. >> A related question is the advice that you would have for students or others going into politics who are truly interested in non-partisan policy solutions, what would you advise. >> First of all I hope you have a lot of students that are like that, because that's what we desperately need in America, and the young people today I'm hoping are willing to look at things as I'm describing. I think that many of them are and I think it really is the solution. We've proven in Maryland that it can be done, and if we can do it here probably nowhere it can't be accomplished. I was a political science major in college and idealistic and interested in policy and what I can do to make things better and I'm so pleased that you have so many students that are focused on these things. But I'll give a shameless plug. I've started a national foundation, my book -- every penny we donate to a group called America united where we focus on bipartisanship and bringing people. I think there are other good organizations, democrat asks republicans coming together in a bipartisan caucus, and I think it's a very important topic and I hope that many of your students are interested and I hope they will try to take a look at solution, problem solving, pragmatism and finding a way to do something about this divisive and angry politics we have today. >> Additional question. Republicans and democrats seem to exist in completely separate media worlds. How do you speaks to your constituents when knowledge on basic issues varies so widely? >> It's a huge issue and there are a lot of reasons for the divisiveness in Americas, but ireful believe that part of the problem is the way we -- it has to do with the media bubbles that we're in, depending on our perspective, it has to do with social media where there's this echo chamber of this group only leadership even wills to these folks and they both have in some cases completely alternative versions of the news and I think to break down those walls because people if you're watching say MSNBC every night. You can't imagine what these people are talkings about and if you're watching fox you're hearing a completely different version of the news. I ended up flipping channels back and forth to hear the two perspectives and it seems like we're talkings about entirely different worlds but also Twitter and Facebook and all the social media, you don't really talk about to people on the other side and you don't get to really -- nobody's ever always right or wrong, and quite frankly all of the news that we get I think on television or in the print media or on social media especially has a slant to it and I think it's important for the smart students to dig through that and think for themselves and gather as much information, because I think there are certainly people that are getting information that's not really factual and they're making decisions based on that and they keen talking to each other. >> And how has a governor do you approach that when you're right next to the big national media center of Washington, D.C., you're in a medium sized state and how do you communicate to reach those broad kinds of audiences? >> That's a great question. I am very active and visible. I try to avoid most of the national media, especially the cable channels but I do go on there occasional, likes on fox they might try to get me to bash democrats more and if I'm on CNN they want me to bash the president. I don't have one message for one group and one message for the other. I also even though social media frustrates me with the the angry voices, it is a greet way to reach people directly so 5 we do a stream all of our press conferences, and we try to get our message directly out. But it's difficult. We're right next to -- I'm sitting hire in Annapolis and we're 30 minutes away from the divisive necessary and dysfunction, which is Washington, D.C. >> Next question from one of our viewers. Tell us about the republican party and particular your hopes for the future of the party that you've been linked to your entire life. Attending a republican convention at a very young age you can getting in trouble with your dad for supporting the wrong view, what are your hopes for it future? >> I am hopeful for the future of the both my party and the country but I'm concerned and I think that right after this November election, which is fast approaching, regardless of what happens, I believe there's going to have to be -- we're going to sit down and try the decide which direction the republican party goes, quite frankly, I think the democrats should do the same thing: because I just think taking a look at where we're going to be in the future. But back to our discussion about Gerald Ford ask the time frame and the seventy eight asks Gerald Ford and Ronald Reagan, I would like to see us return the republican party to more hopeful positive vision and a more willingness to work across the aisle. Of course, Gerald Ford was terrific at that even though he was the minority leader, really working with democrats. Ronald Reagan who came in and worked very many with Tip O'Neil, the democratic Speaker of the House. I would like to see the republican party be a bigger tent, which Reagan talked about. I really believe that successful politics is about addition and multiplication and we seem to be shrinking the tent. I mentioned suburban women, I won over a huge percentage of democrat asks I have a huge percentage of African-Americans statewide and part of it is willing willing to go out and listen and just be honest and focus on problem solving and bringing people together. Because what we're seeing now isn't working, it really isn't. >> The next question touches on reaching outside your bubble, literally to people in the other party and other states and ask what if anything do you feel likes you have in common with other cross party governors, in this case, Steve Bullock? Tell us about that. >> It's a great question. Steve Bullock was the chairman of the national governor's association before me and he's sort of a -- we're totally different states but he was a democratic governor in a republican state. And I'm a republican governor in a democratic state and as a result I think we're -- we out of necessity, if we ever wanted to accomplish anything, we had to work across the aisle and get things donees and we did. Steve and I became very good friends, I was the vice chairman, then I became chairman. Governor Cuomo from no, was also voice chairman. But how do you get elected in a state that's a different party and how do you state there and get relocate in the you money able to work with the other side and it turns out -- you mentioned earlier, you said most popular governor. I have the highest job approval rating. Charlie Baker from Massachusetts and I are and Phil Scott in Vermont we're in democratic states as republicans and it's not a popularity contest but it's what democrats want and it's what republicans want and that's just getting things done. They want their leaders to be honest and they want them to solve the problems and they don't want the name calling and the demonizing and the divisiveness and anger that we're seeing in Washington. >> Governor I would lover to extend this conversation indemnity but we're running against the clock. I would like to pose one last question from our colleagues and it deals with the pandemic. It asks, if we could go back in time toker January of this year, how wowed would you redo the Coronavirus response of the federal government given all that you now know? >> I talk about this in my book, and back in February, I think it was February 6 we had the national governor's association meeting in Washington so all the governors convened on Washington. We had a group of leaders from the federal government with Anthony Fauci and Dr. Robert Redfield come tell all the governors what we were about to be faced with and it was a very sobering message. We had already been working on this in our state since January when things started happening and we were gearing up and getting ready. The government I think there were people in the federal government who were aware of what the potential might be and who were trying to get prepared but I think the biggest mistake was not taking it seriously and I think the president's messaging was really terrible, continued to downplay the virus and say it was going to disappear and belittling the seriousness of it. Even though he was getting expert advice from his administration, so I think we should have taken it more seriously sooner. We should have develop a national testing strategy, we raspberry out of swabs and tubes and ventilators and it's amazing to me thawier weren't prepared earlier and especially when we kind of all knew at some point we might have a respiratory virus. We didn't know anything about this particular one but I think everybody was caught flat footed. So I think being more prepared, listening to the scientists and taking quick decisive action which is what we had to do in our states. 17 >> We need to close. I wish I could offer you a walking tour to revisit the big house and through central campus, that's not an option today but we all look forward to the day that becomes a possibility. I want to note that we have a large and diverse audience today and I want to thanks everyone been participating in this broadcast for your engagement. Including the many questions, we were not able to ask all of them. But we had a lot of interest and ireful appreciate the thoughtful questions. Finally Governor Hogan I want to thank you on behalf of the entire Ford school community for your openness and willingness to engage. We wish you welshing continue good health and thank you very much for being with us today. To all of our viewers, we invite you to stay attentive to the newly redesigned Ford website for many upcoming virtual events that the Ford school will be offering in the weeks and months ahead. So thanks to all and again, Governor Hogan thank you so much to you. >> Thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity. I'm sorry I wasn't in Ann Arbor average. I look forward to having that opportunity again. And go blue. >> Thank you very much.