Mm.

Yeah.

Hi everyone.

Thanks for joining us today.

I'm really delighted to have

you attending this
first in a series of

webinars to help you become
more acquainted with

the Ford School of Public Policy

at the University of Michigan.

My name's Bessel, bless him,

the director of admissions and
recruiting for the school.

And it is my delight to be

joined today by our
two associate deans.

So i'm joined bipolar
Lance and Luke Schaefer.

Paula is our Associate
Dean for Academic Affairs,

and Luke is our Associate
Dean for policy engagement.

And they are going to spend
some time talking to you

about the resources that
this whole the faculty.

And we will have time at
the end for questions.

So I would like to
invite them to 2a.

Join us and we'll get started.

Hi everyone.

I'm Paula Lance said I'm

the Associate Dean
for Academic Affairs

here at the Ford School.

I'm also a Professor of
Public Policy and I have

a joint appointment in

the School Public Health and

the Department of Health
Management and Policy.

I'm a social epidemiologist
by training and

a social demographer and

teach courses related
to policy analysis,

program evaluation,

and social social
inequalities in health.

That's my main research focus.

So delighted to be
with you today.

Thanks for joining
us. Thanks, Paula.

Luke. Hi everyone.
I'm Luke Schaefer.

I'm the associate dean for

research and policy engagement.

I study social welfare
policy in the United States,

poverty in the United States
social welfare policy.

I have a joint appointment

with the School of Social Work.

And I also run a
university wide initiative

called Poverty Solutions that's

housed at the Ford School.

And we have lots of

wonderful Ford School
students who work with us.

Our mission is to partner
with communities and

policymakers to find new ways

to prevent and alleviate poverty.

But I also just wanted to note

that I made at home I have kids,

started doing their
homework and a dog on

my lap and some
plumbers here today,

so there may be a
little extra noise.

So it goes these days.

Absolutely. Base you guys.

So the first question I'd like to

ask you to addresses, you know,

y is a master's degree in

public policy important
right now, right?

What, why might a
student decided that

this was the right time
for them to go to school.

So pollack, What are your
thoughts about that?

So I have lots of
thoughts about that.

I think that getting
a master's degree in

public policy or public
affairs is without question,

a good investment in your future

that would afford
you a wide range of

opportunities for jobs
in the public sector,

obviously in the
non-profit sector,

but also in the private sector.

There's just lots of
opportunities with

these degrees for cool jobs

that focus on the role of

public policy having a
positive impact in the world.

That MPP and the MPA degree
are both generalist degrees.

And we'll talk in a little
bit about the curriculum.

So their degrees that equip

people with a wide
range of analytic,

communication and leadership
skills so that students with

these degrees can land
lots of different places.

The way we structure
the curriculum

at the Ford School, however,

allows people not only to get

the Generalist Training for

the broad field of public
policy and public affairs,

but also the opportunity
to go deep in

areas of policy which you
feel passionate about.

Passionate about as well.

Whether it be social welfare
policy, health policy,

environmental policy,
economic policy,

tax, education, the list goes on.

So again, it's a
generalist degree,

but with the opportunity
to go deep and

really become an expert
in a specialist.

As we all know right now,

the world's in desperate need

of people who are
committed to making

public policy and political
institutions work better.

The world right now
needs people like you,

her creative and innovative
and entrepreneurial.

And also frankly, I'll say
people who are kind of

mad and pissed off
about the status quo

and the ways in which
things are not working so

great right now and
the ways in which,

you know, our, our

society and in many
places in the world are

becoming more unequal over
time rather than more equal.

So I think it's important,

I'm starting us off here being
really honest and saying,

I think it's important to
recognize that public policy

is an important force
of good in the world.

I mean, I obviously
believe that I

wouldn't have dedicated
my career to it.

Public policy can
be used to address

complex problems and really

in sort of a cliche kind of way,

make the world a better place.

But we also have to be

honest and recognize that
public policy is often

the root cause of
structural inequalities and

systemic racism and sexism and

other forms of bias that
we have in the world.

Public policy codifies and and,

you know, kinda
create status quo.

And a lot of ways that,

that might not align
with your values,

don't align with my values
and many sorts of ways.

So again, I think it's time,

it's time for us to
recognize the role

of public policy for,

for good and not so
good in the world.

And the field needs,
again, creative,

impassioned,

and dedicated people like you
to make it all work better.

What would you add?
Gosh, Paula did

a great job of just

highlighting and I think the
ways I think about this,

if I'm, uh, I,

I love the Ford School,

I love our community dearly.

And I think it's a place where if

you want to come
and you do believe

government and public policy

can impact people's
lives for good.

That people can, policies

can help people live the
lives that they want to live.

It's a great place for you.

And if you also
believe that sometimes

policy can have the
opposite effect, right?

And can really part
of the problem.

And you want to learn
more about that and

understand that this is

the place for you if you

want to learn how
to analyze policy.

Because one of the things
I've learned is that

often well-intentioned policy can

go terribly wrong, right?

And so we really need to do

rigorous analysis to make sure

the things that we're doing

are actually having the
effect that we intend.

Biggest sometimes policy
that has meant out

peoples in their lives

actually has the
opposite effect, right?

And so that's why
analysis is so important.

So that's what we're about here.

And, you know, one of

the things I admire about
the Ford School has

so many graduates go on to do
incredibly exciting things.

So Steph white as

a student of mine and
student ball as it was in

the start start-up pictures
before we got going.

She's gone on to a position

with the state of Michigan
that's helping to

coordinate and get more families

onto public programs that
can help them across.

They might be on one and
they're not on the other.

And there's huge levels
of bureaucracy and

cheese working to
streamline those.

It's a really
exciting possession.

I have another student at
the State of Michigan who's

running Economic Security Policy

for the Department of
Health and Human Services?

I have an appointment at
at that same department.

All has been working
with the health

side of that department.

So it's really a bad
sort of digging in

and bringing that evidence
and research to bear.

And I like to think having

low egos in the process, right?

So if you're someone who wants
to learn how to evaluate

policy to make sure that it's
doing what it should do.

Want to learn how
to actually make

sure that that policy
gets implemented.

And really want to
be about the work

and Doing whatever it takes,

then this is this
is a great home.

Thank you both. So let's

sort of narrow down our
focus a little bit.

We've talked about the field of

public policy and
public affairs broadly.

But so, you know,

I know I get lots
of questions about

what makes the Ford
School unique and,

and, and makes it stand out

amongst various policy school.

So I'd love to hear your
thoughts about that.

I guess we'll start
with polygon on

that one. Great, thanks.

Thanks Beth cell.

So why the Ford School Hall?

As Luke mentioned?

I too love being
being at the school.

This is a really unique
community and in many,

many ways, and we can
talk more about that.

The Ford School, our
master's program,

that's both the MPP
and that the MPA are

designed with our brand in mind.

And what's the Ford School brand?

It is really strong
analytic training,

training in economics
and statistics and

program evaluation and
political analysis.

And also an analysis from an

ethical and a values-based
perspective on public policy.

So really strong
analytic toolkit,

multi-disciplinary
analytic toolkit or

brand also is
preparing people for

the world in which
communication skills are

absolutely as important
as your analysis skills.

So the Ford School is really
proud that we put out

people who are critical
thinkers and analysts,

but also really
great communicators.

And I think the best resource
we have here to really

underscore our commitment to that

is that the Ford School has four,

count them for writing
instructors on our faculty.

They all have MFA degrees.

They are experienced
writers and they're

experienced teachers of the kinds

of writing that's important
in the policy world.

Memos and testimony and one
pagers and policy briefs,

enough ads, et cetera, et cetera.

So you know,

however great your writing
skills are already,

they will be moved to

the next level through your
work at the Ford School.

And then also we have a really
strong and growing focus

on leadership development
and leadership skills.

And at the Ford School,

we just simply define
leadership as having

a positive impact on

others, organizations
and communities.

Leadership is about
influence and impact and

having those skills to change

organizations to deal with and

improve complex problems
and communities.

It's not about being
the head Han show,

it's not about being the,

the top person in
an organization.

Again, simply it's just
about having that impact,

that positive impact
that you want.

And it's probably the
reason you're drawn

to when thinking about going
to graduate school anyway.

So those are the, those are

the really important aspects
of our, of our curriculum.

I think another
thing that really is

important about the
Ford School is that.

First of all, the
University of Michigan's

a really big university, right?

There's 19 schools and colleges.

There are 45 thousand students

here and others kind of a dinky

little but lovely
midwestern college town.

Easy to live here, easy to,

you know, upside of a pandemic,

do other fun things you wanna do.

But the University of
Michigan is a big university.

And, but it's also
a university with

really low barriers between

those 19 schools and colleges.

And so it's a very collaborative,
interdisciplinary.

People are not in their silos.

Students can take courses at
any of the other schools and

colleges on campus
and they do faculty.

Luke and I both mentioned we

we have appointments
and other schools.

I know someone on campus who has

an appointment in seven
different schools.

That might seem like
a little too much,

but that's sort of the world.

The world doesn't function in

disciplines in silos, right?

The world is all
very interconnected.

And so the Ford School,

we're one of the
smallest schools and

colleges at the
University of Michigan.

So being a small,

tight-knit community
is really good for us,

but we're a small
tight-knit community

in a big university.

That's pretty easy
to navigate and

we can definitely help you
do that whatever your,

whatever your interests are.

Our culture here is that

faculty are incredibly
assessable.

Most of us are here

because we'd love to
teach and were so

inspired and honored to be

learning from the
students that we

have in our classrooms.

Hopefully we're teaching
something as well, but it's a,

it's a two-way street,

especially in graduate school.

I mean, the, the
learning process is,

you know, it's bidirectional,
It's multi-directional.

So faculty are
accessible to students

both in terms of the teaching
but also their research.

We can't get our
research done without

great students
joining our projects

and working as
research assistants.

And again, contributing
in that way.

The staff at the Ford
School are amazing.

I have never worked
with such a dedicated,

fun and amazing group

of people that were
very student focused,

want to solve every problem.

But students have bring all
of our resources to bear,

ranging from graduate
career services

to academic support,

to research support,
financial support,

mental health, and
wellness support,

especially important right now.

So we again,

I don't know if you'll
believe me when I say this,

but I actually feel like
through, through the pandemic.

When we at the Ford
School, students,

faculty and staff decided early

on that what we needed to do is

make sure we had

open and honest and
transparent communication,

writing these waves of

crisis management that
started last March.

Being really honest with
students about what's going on,

what are some of the plans
getting student in put into,

you know, helping shape what the,

this year's gonna
look like again,

in the middle of a
pandemic and in the middle

of the most weird election.

That's going on, right?

And also really important
issues in terms of

social and racial justice
going on in the world.

And so I, I actually believe the

Ford School's become
tighter and more,

more honest in
close-knit community

in the pandemic them
before because we've just

had a really sincere
dedication to,

to communication, but
also our mission.

And our mission is
serving the public good.

And we all verticals

not a perfect place.
That's for sure.

There's no institution that is,

but sort of a railroad
rallying around our mission

and wanting to be there for each

other and support each other
through this historic,

unprecedented time has I think,

just strengthen the Ford School
in really important ways.

Look things. We'd love to
hear your thoughts as well.

Yeah, I think I'll just,
WE emphasize the point.

Really taking teaching very
seriously at the Ford School.

So after every semester there's a

I'm teaching honor
roll that comes out

among the faculty
and I think sort of

a place on that
four classes where

student evaluation suggested you

really hit the mark is
sort of a coveted plays.

I know I look for that.

We didn't do it in the
spring because it was

such a crazy semester
and I would have been on

the teaching on a
roll and it still

bugs me that I didn't I

didn't get to say I was
that semester, so yeah.

And just really to me,

even all the places that
I then just the mutual

respect with students and having

them be believing that we have

a set of skills and knowledge
to bring to the table,

but also that we can
learn together, right?

And I think some
of your colleagues

that you'll meet as you
go through the program

will become lifelong
colleagues that

you will draw on
throughout your careers.

Then just WE emphasized
in the place of

this strong analytic training.

So you'll come in,

you'll learn to read
research and be able to

tell what a piece

of research strengths
and weaknesses are.

They'll be able to use

the tools to analyze the
programs that you run.

Or if you're working
in the legislature,

analyze the president guns,

particular moods that you
might push, and the writing.

It's just like there's
just no other place

that I'm aware of that has

multiple full-time
writing instructors

and I'm a firm believer

that however good
a writer you are,

you can always be a
better writer, right?

And continuing, sort
of hone that craft,

which is really
going to be one of

the most fundamental
things in your career in

terms of getting
your ideas across

is it's just

an incredible resource
that I'm very proud of.

Finally, I'll just
say again that I

think the Ford School really

focuses on the applied work

was Paul and I both
said and just,

you know, looking at
the transition team

through Biden administration,

having multiple people
who are working

on on these transition teams
advising on that, right?

We have deep connections
at the federal level.

We have deep connections
with the state.

Many people working
in the city of

Detroit as well as other places.

So there's just a
hands-on opportunity

to really delve then and try out

the skills in practical
wave that have

father been part
ink so much Luke.

So to follow up on and
both of your points,

lots of students have
questions about, you know,

how do I get involved with

the faculty outside of
the classroom, right?

How do I get involved
in research?

And there are different projects
and that sort of thing.

So you can, you,

can you just talk
to us a little bit

about about what that looks like?

I know there's lots of
students that work at

Poverty Solutions and the
other research centers.

So I'll get over
topology to start with

some examples and then we'll
get loose thoughts as well.

Right? So as I mentioned before,

faculty couldn't do the,

the amount and level of
research that they do and also

the policy engagement
work that we all

do without the support
and help of students.

So faculty get grants
and contracts and have,

have money to pay students

to work with us on I'm projects,

for example, I'm working
on a project right now

with the Michigan
Department of Health and

Human Services that's really

focused on how do we how do we

finance the growing
need and important need

for supportive housing for

low income people who have
behavioral health issues,

mental health issues, and
substance abuse issues.

And I have several students
working with me on

that on that particular project.

There are also lots of
opportunities for unpaid work.

And we would like to pay
students when, when we can.

For sure. Because your time and

energy and labor are
important and valued.

But there are, again,

opportunities
sometimes for students

to get involved with work
that faculty are doing.

That we do unpaid ourselves.

And, but it's important
that in the world,

One thing I do want
to mention is that

for Ford School faculty or

a value evaluated every
year for their teaching,

for their professional
service work,

for the research, but also
their policy engagement work.

We are expected as,

as faculty to be out in

the real world and to be
listening to policymakers and

practitioners and
finding out what kind of

research and evidence
and data do you

need to do your work

and then know it
when we do research,

trying to translate it
to policymakers and

practitioners so it
can have that impact.

So we involve students
and a lot of that.

And let me just with coal,

but let me just give
you an example of how

some Ford School students
and I tried to be of

service to the state
health department when

Kobe hit in March.

I reached out to the doctor,

Janae Cal dude, who's

the chief medical officer
of the state of michigan.

I really like the head
epidemiologist in hell,

had health officer for the state.

Those of you who
are from Michigan,

you've seen her on
television almost every day.

But I reached out
to her and said,

look what, what can
we do to be helpful?

Can I have a whole
group of students

at the Ford School who
want to provide service,

wanted to provide,
you know, research.

Quick summaries of what
are other states doing,

what are other countries doing
that seems to be working.

Can we help you?

And she came back
immediately and said,

I would like a memo and gave
like five different topics.

I would like a memo on how

racial disparities are emerging

from the data and other states,

again, early in the pandemic.

As the data were
coming out, we could

see that this was
going to be a problem.

What do we know about
that would have

some other countries
done with alike,

with apps and technology
for controlling the virus.

So et cetera, et cetera.

But it was a way in which

Ford School students could
take those important,

you know, quick policy analysis,

quick research scan
sort of skills,

and craft a really good memo in

like 48 hours for a
person who's dealing with

a crisis on the ground.

So we were, we were really
happy and proud to be serving

the state and in that way
and still are right now.

Thank you. Fall on Luke.

I know like I said,

I know Poverty Solutions has

lots of opportunities for issues.

So we'd love to hear
about that app.

So as I mentioned briefly,

Poverty Solutions is a
university initiative

but warehouses at
the Ford School.

And because of what we do
is so policy-relevant,

we have tons of Ford
School students

who work with us as
research assistants.

So many are paid
hourly for their work.

We have some GSR arrays

for students have been
working with us for a while.

We have independent studies.

So I'm just going to
give you a few examples

so that the mission at

Poverty Solutions is really
this engaged work of

wanting to get out of the
ivory tower and partner with

communities and policymakers to

find new ways to prevent
and alleviate poverty.

So we think of poverty
really is a set of

interlink systems that don't

work as they should for families,

whether it be housing

and education, jobs,
transportation.

And we really want to tried
to tackle those systems in

ways that have ripple
effects for families.

One of our biggest sort of

clusters of workers in
the city of Detroit.

So we have formed with
Mayor Duggan steam,

a partnership on
economic mobility,

where we have a number

of very sort of
targeted strategic.

Efforts to tackle some of the
issues that the city faces.

So for example, one of
my staff members is

the Digital Inclusion Director
for the city of Detroit.

So he technically works for me,

but through sort of a shared
staffing partnership.

He said to City Hall
and has students

who work with them and they're

trying to tackle
the digital divide.

And the city in the
city where it's

as prominent as it
is anywhere else.

Before COBIT hit,

they were doing incredibly
innovative stuff around

Library laptop rentals
and having some of

the most progressive policies

around accessing
laptops from Library,

getting training to be
up and running on them

for the longest periods of time

as well as internet connection.

And since then, since Coven head,

there was a big
push around getting

devices to DPS ED students.

And so Josh, Our
team member on this,

was part of a big,

a big part of the effort to get

devices and Internet access to

every student in
the city was about

a $23 million initiative.

Some of our other work
has been around housing.

So tax foreclosure is

a major reason why the
traders lose their home.

There are a lot of
issues related to

unconstitutionally
high tax assessments.

And then there are some resources

through what's called
the poverty property tax

exemption that are
on the books where

the traders can actually be
relieved that tax liability.

And those are
incredibly difficult to

get and there's a lot of
red tape around them.

So a student in

public health was actually
one of our champions around

some changes that were
approved by city council in

the city to make that process
much more streamlined.

And we had partners both among

legal advocates
and Quicken Loans,

a community trust fund.

It's actually big than a
big proponent of this,

of just spreading the
word and doing everything

we can and evidence base weights

to get people signed up for that.

At the last I checked,

we had increased the number
of families who were getting

that that tax exemption

that relieves them
of their taxes,

which means it
can't be foreclosed

on because they
didn't pay the taxes.

We're up about 30, 40%.

So that's a lot of
people's lives.

As we were doing
that work though,

we saw that there
is a major issue

with home repair, right.

So it's families who were
staying in their homes.

We saw significant challenges
in terms of roofs,

in terms of furnaces, windows.

And having people embedded at

the city meant that some of

our Ford School students and one

of our fellows are able
to really dig in and see

that there were some programs

to help people with their homes,

but there was no strategy,

there is no sort of
coherence to it.

And so Ryan Ruggiero,

actually a recent MPP graduate,

sort of lead the way and started

helping understand
that landscape and

identifying some ways
which now the city has

changed the way it does home

repair services and supports.

And in the process, she actually

built a home repair
resource guide.

Right. Which was simply sort

of Document about
what was out there.

And I was sort of

surprised that this this
guide in the city of Detroit,

it just simply says,
these are the programs.

If you have one of these
problems with your with

your home that you can get
some financial help with.

And it's been like one of

our biggest bestselling
publications.

Of course we, we don't,

we don't charge for it,

but we we made a couple
of 100 copies and like we

were out of them within
a day because people

saw that such a useful resource.

We see it as a way
to sort of build

the relation to, it's
useful to people,

but it also allows us to deepen

our partnership and
really look at policy.

Another thing that
we recently did in

Detroit was a project

that you can check
out on our website,

poverty dot umich.edu, where

Ford School students for

instrumental called
investing in us.

We were asked a lot
about whether or not

we would do community forums

to find out what the
priorities of Detroit are

is we're for policy change.

Sort of what they
wanted to prioritize in

terms of people
investments in the city.

And rather than do
new community forums,

we thought maybe we will

just look at what's
already out there.

And it turns out over

the last eight years
there's been something like

400 different community forums

that have sort of
asked that writers,

what are your priorities
for your community?

What are your priorities
for your families?

And a lot of these things just

get written and then they
go on a shelf somewhere.

So in what we think is

the very first time
anyone's done this,

we actually collected
all of them.

We coded them for consistency.

And we wrote a report that

relies on the voices of
the traitors and we're

using that helps that

our agenda for policy
change in the city.

And one of the thing that
really came out of that report,

which is something that
we've been working on a bed,

is not just understanding

sort of the resource
side of the equation.

So there is interest than jobs.

Obviously,
transportation comes up.

But the costs of living, right?

So the, not just the resources,

but the costs really came
up over and over again.

The cost of housing,

the cost of things
like auto insurance,

right, where the
city actually has,

for many unintended reasons,

the highest auto insurance
costs in the entire nation,

I think probably the world.

And and so that's helping to
sort of drive our agenda as

we go forward so that we're not

just sort of assuming
as scholars,

we know exactly what the issues

are people face and what
their priorities are.

We start with listening, right.

And tried to let our agenda
be shaped by what we hear.

Yeah. I'd like to
mention that even that,

Luke and I both

have talked about work
we've been doing with

the Michigan State Government

and Luke's work and Detroit and

I've in the past and a
lot of work in Detroit.

I just really want
to underscore that

the faculty at the
Ford School are

working all over the world.

And bringing students into
that work with them were

because we are a public
university in a,

in a fairly large state and
do feel a commitment to

provide service to our in our
own backyard, so to speak.

We do a lot of work in the state,

but it is not limited to that.

Again, our faculty and students.

And alumni go off to do
important work all over,

all over the planet.
That's right.

And in fact, I would say ball,

that's one of the places
that we've really

just really grown in

prominence over the
last couple years.

And I know I certainly
enjoyed it when former

Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice and

Hillary Clinton goes joined as

a part of our sort
of Diplomacy series.

And there's just incredible
work being done.

Not just in Michigan,

but yeah, all over the world.

And one of the great things

that I enjoy being a part
of because I get to learn

about those things even
though that's not an area of

my expertise. Thank you.

Build them is really true of.

Let's just hop over
to the questions

that have come in and chat.

So the first one is one
that I know I hear a lot,

but I would love to have.

You both answer.

Suppose from a student who says,

I have a BA in
political science and

not a lot of
quantitative background.

So, you know, how do I

prove or of the
quantitative coursework?

While we, you know,

we take everyone as they come.

Strongest students we
had a few years ago was

a dance major coming ahead.

No. No social science really.

So whatever your background
and preparation is,

you know, you you will be fine.

We will get you through.

There is math camp.

That camp before the
semester starts.

If you feel you know,

before you take
statistics in the fall,

you need a refresher
on just basic algebra.

What is, what is a
probability anyway?

We, That's an option for you.

And we certainly can give people

some readings to do
if you want to kind

of brush up or you've never
taken economics before.

But really our core curriculum is

designed to take people

where they are, they
are introductory.

Now if you've had statistics in

the past or economics,
we have waiver exams.

We don't want you retaking
things you already know.

And we help people prepare
for those exam so they can

pass them and then they
have extra room in their,

in their course of study
for, for electives, AQ.

So there's a couple of questions

in here about dual degrees.

As you both know, dude, part
of the work that we do,

there's a question
about doing sort

of a student initiated
dual degree rate with

a program that's not one
of the formal programs.

And there's also a question about

joining after they've started

their first year at
the Ford School.

So both of those things
are perfectly acceptable,

but we'd love to hear your,

you talk about that a little bit.

What do you want me to do?

This? This is why I
brought on Google degrees,

which I would share, but
I might defer to you.

Start out on that question.

Yeah. So 1 third of that

MPP students at the
Ford School are

doing a dual degree.
Of some sort.

As I mentioned before,

there's 19 schools and colleges,

and within them there are
just dozens and dozens of

other professional
degrees that combine

really nicely with a
master's of public policy.

I think the most common
ones we see here are

dual between an MPP and an MBA,

or a JD, or

the Master of Social Work or
the Master of Public Health.

But I mean that the sky's
the limit and we do have

some formal establish degree,
dual degree programs.

But it's also the case
that students can,

can come and say,

I want to do something,

you know, that no
one's done before,

but I want to combine

my technical Generalist
Training and public policy

with its other specific
area of interest.

For me, like Middle
Eastern studies

or something else that we can,

we can make that work.

You don't have to
know this going in.

It's actually the case. It
works better if people,

people doing the dual
degree started in one

of the programs for
the first year.

Because then they get
to know their other,

the enter in a cohort

and they get to know
people and they

take the first-year course
sequence in that cohort.

And then the second year they
start the second program.

And again they're in
a cohort and they get

to know the people
over there rather

than sort of going back
and forth all the time.

So you could come and start
in the Ford School and or and

another degree program
and then decide

later you wanted to apply
for that second one.

And maybe some of you are
already at Michigan doing to

an initial degree
and want to apply

to afford for dual degree weak,

we can make that happen.

To me. I think the question is,

I like the idea of coming
and then adding a degree.

I think there are
questions of just

being uncertain as to what it

is you're getting with

a dual degree that you don't
get with just one degree.

So as Paul mentioned
at the start,

one of the great
things about Michigan,

as are our boundaries are
pretty open across departments.

So can you come

to the Ford School and
take some classes and get

some skills to enhance
your skill set

at the business school or
the School of Public Health?

Or is there a very
specific reason

why a dual degree helps you get

to where you want
to go in a way that

single master's degree doesn't.

And so those are the
questions that I

just encourage people
to really think about,

talk about even calm as if
that is an option for you.

Start the program and then see,

does it really make
sense for me to add

on another year to

my training in do this
dual degree or not?

Yeah. I I agree with Luke.

It's not it's not

a foregone conclusion that

that two Master's degrees
is better than one.

You know, it's gotta provide

some value added to you
for your career goals.

So like Luke, I

spend a lot of time talking
to students to say,

do you really need
this second degree

to accomplish what you want to?

I also ask people
nosey questions.

They don't have to answer
if they don't want to,

but I do ask them how
much are you in debt RFP,

what's your student
loan situation?

And are you going
to have to go more

in debt to get that
second degree?

And again, is it
gonna, is it gonna

be worth that to achieve

your Your career
goals sometimes, yes.

I mean, some people
people who want

to practice law and need a JD,

You can't just do
that with an MPP.

There are there's a
different skill set and

a different sort of a
credentialing that goes along with

some dual degree combinations
that really might be

necessary for people for
the career goals they have.

But I'll just tell you honestly,

I've taught some people out of

it because I just
didn't think there was

the value-added there and
certainly not to go another,

you know, x number of
dollars into debt.

Perfect. So there's a
few questions in here,

particularly related
to education policy.

Folks that are interested in

variety of different aspects.

So just wondering if you
guys would talk a little bit

about sort of our
education policy,

sort of teaching in
that arena as well.

Sir. Luke, a education
into a strength for us.

We've got just really
terrific people

who are working in the space.

We have the Education
Policy Initiative,

which has sort of one of our,

our centers that does
tremendous work in this area.

And faculty including Kevin
staying as sued in our ski.

Brian Jacob, who
are really leaders.

We have research on
higher education.

So one of the great innovations

from work coming out of
the Ford School has been

what became the Go Blue
guarantee at Michigan started as

a Hale Scholarship where

we saw in Michigan
that high-performance,

low income students
actually don't apply to

the University of
Michigan at higher rates.

Even though they could get in,

they don't think
they can afford it.

And that's partially because
sort of undergraduate

degrees are financial aid
is just very confusing.

And, and so, but
in fact, actually,

a lot of students would
get a better deal at

the University of Michigan than

a lot of the places
that I applied

to the hilt scholarship was

an experiment where we did

a real rigorous evaluation that

found that if you

change the way you communicate
and you just sent out

basically like a statement

saying If you apply and you

get into the University
of Michigan,

you will receive full tuition
grant for all four years.

And doing just that,

even though that
was actually what

they would've gotten
to begin with,

had a massive effect on
the number of low income,

high-performing students
that applied and really

changed the landscape of
the, of the student body.

We also, you know,

our faculty have
focused on career and

technical education
and understanding when

do those program sort of
at the high-school level,

positively impact sort of
trajectories, summer US jobs.

So we have faculty that

I've done some of
the top research and

understanding how
somebody's jobs programs

may positively impact and
under what circumstances.

So there's a strength

in the work and I think a
lot of that will come down.

You know, many people will take

a class like program evaluation.

And a lot of the examples

that I think will come
from educational policy.

Okay. Let me too, I'm sorry.

Yeah. I just want to note
that for the MPP degree,

we we have the option of
a policy concentrations.

We have five different
areas in which you

could get a policy concentration.

And one of those areas
as social policy.

And we do have a lot
of students who are

interested in education policy,

using education policy courses

to fulfill that social policy.

Constant concentration.

So another people to

get the social policy
concentration might

take a health policy class and

an education policy class
and a poverty related class.

You can social policies,

a big, big sort of area.

But again, there's so many
offerings in education policy

here and a lot of students
just take them as electives.

And then all of a
sudden they have

the social policy concentration.

So I know I am cognizant

of the fact that we are
running out of time,

but theirs. And we
probably won't.

Questions, but we'll
we'll give you

an opportunity to let you know
how to follow up on those.

But one question that I
think it'd be great to

address in a little bit
of time we have left

is about the ability to

take classes outside of

the Ford School across
the university.

And if you know what
your thoughts are,

if there's classes you've
seen that students

have particularly
really loved and

how that sort of plays into

and enhances the education
for our students.

For the MPP degree are

actually required to
take four credits,

at least four credits
at the Ford School.

And people have no,

no problem doing that.

So again, this is a big,

big university and our students
have such a wide array of

interests that they're taking
classes all over campus.

A lot of the Business School,

the Law School has some pretty,

pretty interesting courses that

intentionally bring
people from lots of

different backgrounds
to solve its comp,

complex problem solving
problem initiative.

Or students enjoy that.

And again, again, all
over campus students are,

are taking classes and also the,

the graduate school at

the University of Michigan
Rackham Graduate School has

last I counted

50 different graduate
certificate programs.

Where if you take classes
and these are usually

across multiple
schools and colleges,

you can have another designation
on your tramped script,

which is that you are under

Certificate in a certain area.

The most popular.

Two certificate programs on

campus for Ford School
Students are one in science,

technology, and public policy,

which we run out of
the Ford School.

And then the other one is

on I might not get the
name exactly right,

but it's on community organizing
and social justice work.

That's a very, that's

a very popular
certificate program

among Ford School students.

But again, there's 50 of
them and sky's the limit.

Thank thank yous I see
where our time so we did

have one quick quick
thing that there was

a request to see Luke's puppy

already then very well behaved.

He was napping. It might be
a little unimpressed with,

hey, look, this is
wealth than he,

either COBIT dog came
to us from Tech,

both on a train.

And he is the most lovely dog

unless he thinks you're going

to have any have

any negative effect on the
11-year-old in our home.

So he turns to judge. Love it.

So unfortunately, we are
at the end of our time,

o Ford school mascot,
that would be great.

We have we have a lot of dog
lovers at the Ford School.

I will I will note that.

So I just wanted to mention
we're going to have

our next webinar
on December third.

I think Paul is going to join
us for that one as well.

And we're going to
talk about the, the,

the tools for influence

and that you learned as part
of the Ford School degree?

I dropped in the chat and up

the FSB P admissions
mailbox mailbox address.

If you have follow-up questions
and I see that Paula has

put her contact information
and as well yeah.

Someone has a typo. Use this.

Yes. A to Z, not an S. Carrots.

And I see Luke is
done that as well.

So very much appreciate
that you guys.

We so appreciate your time to

our prospective students
that have joined us

today and hope that

you can join us for
future ones are

a reach of we have appointments

on our calendars if
you want to have

individual conversations as well.

So just thank you all so much.

I hope everybody has a one.

For those of us in the
US, I hope you have

a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday

and just thank you again for

your time and we will
hopefully hear from you again.

Thanks, Paul and Luke.
Take care, everybody.

Thanks that I'm sincere
if we didn't get to

so many good questions
in the chat box.

So please we are,

we are, we want to
engage with you.

We want to have conversation,

so please reach out,

I'm around and what
I would love to,

love to talk with any
of you about anything.

A 100%, alright guys,

hopefully next time CA