Gun violence in the United States: Competing frames and policy tensions panel

GOOD AFTERNOON.

HOW ARE Y'ALL DOING?

STAYING HOME, I HOPE.

I AM MICHAEL BARR.

I AM THE DEAN OF GERALD R. FORD

SCHOOL OF PUBLIC POLICY.

I’M REALLY THRILLED TO SEE

ALL OF YOU HERE THIS AFTERNOON AND

TO WELCOME YOU HERE FOR THE GILL

ULMAN AND MARTHA DARLING HEALTH

POLICY FUND LECTURE AT THE FORD

SCHOOL.

THIS TALK IS ON ONE OF THE MOST

PRESSING ISSUES FACING OUR

COUNTRY, GUN VIOLENCE.

I UNDERSTAND WE HAVE FOLKS

OUTSIDE ANNE ARBOR WANTING TO

VIEW.

A SPECIAL WELCOME TO THOSE

WATCHING ONLINE.

THE LECTURESHIP, EVENT WE ARE HAVING

TODAY IS FUNDED BY GILL ULMAN,

WHO JUST WALKED IN, AND MARTHA

DARLING.

AND WE ARE JUST DEEPLY GRATEFUL

FOR THEIR SUPPORT WHICH PROVIDES

FUNDING FOR HEALTH POLICY

FACULTY AND OUTREACH ACTIVITIES

HERE AT THE FORD SCHOOL.

AND THE FORD SCHOOL IS ABLE

THROUGH THIS FUNDING TO ADDRESS

A SPECTRUM OF HEALTH POLICY

ISSUES.

I WANT TO PAUSE AND THANK GILL

FOR BEING HERE.

[APPLAUSE]

>> UNFORTUNATELY MASS SHOOTINGS

HAVE BECOME A REGULAR STORY.

LAST FEW WEEKS, NINE INCIDENTS

OF GUN VIOLENCE, FIVE OR MORE

INJURED OR SADLY KILLED.

TODAY WE HAVE DISTINGUISHED A

PANEL OF EXPERTS TO DISCUSS GUN

VIOLENCE.

PAULA LANCE ASSOCIATE DEAN AND

PROFESSOR OF HEALTH MANAGEMENT

AND POLICY AT THE SCHOOL OF

PUBLIC HEALTH WILL INTRODUCE

PANELIST AND MODERATE A

PROVOCATIVE CONVERSATION.

A WORD ON FORMAT.

WE'LL HAVE TIME TOWARD THE END

FOR QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE

P. TWO FORD SCHOOL STUDENTS

MARIA AND STEPHEN WILL SIFT

THROUGH QUESTION CARDS AND POSE

THEM TO THE PANEL.

YOU'LL SEE THE CARDS TO FILL OUT

QUESTIONS DURING THE COURSE OF

THE EVENT.

THOSE OF YOU WATCHING ONLINE,

TWEET YOUR QUESTIONS USING

#POLICYTALKS.

WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU BOTH IN

THE ROOM TODAY AND THOSE

WATCHING ONLINE.

LET ME NOW TURN THE PODIUM OVER

TO PAULA LANCE.

[APPLAUSE]

>> HI EVERYONE, WELCOME, THANKS

FOR JOINING US TODAY.

LET ME SET THE STAGE WITH BIT.

IN PUBLIC POLICY, WE CONSIDER

FRAMING OR HOW ISSUES ARE BEING

DEFINED, SHAPED AND TALKED ABOUT

BOTH IN TERMS OF HOW PROBLEMS

ARE DEFINED AND HOW POLICY

RESPONSES ARE GOING TO TRY TO

ADDRESS THOSE PROBLEMS.

TT U.S., MULTIPLE COMPETING

FRAMES IN THE U.S. AND WHAT TO

DO ABOUT IT.

THIS INCLUDES THAT THE MAIN

UNDERLYING PROBLEM IS VIOLENCE.

GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM,

VIOLENT PEOPLE AND VIOLENT

COMMUNITIES ARE THE PROBLEM.

MAIN PROBLEM IS THERE ARE TOO

MANY GUNS.

GUNS ARE TOO EASY TO GET AND TOO

MANY PEOPLE HAVE THEM.

DIFFERENT FRAME IS NO, TOO MANY

BAD PEOPLE HAVE GUNS, CRIMINALS,

PEOPLE WITH MENTAL HEALTH

ISSUES.

ANOTHER FRAME, GOOD PEOPLE ARE

NOT ARMED ENOUGH TO PROTECT

THEMSELVES AND THEIR PROPERTY.

MAIN PROBLEM IS PEOPLE DON'T

FOLLOW THE LAWS WE ALREADY HAVE.

WE DON'T NEED NEW LAWS JUST

BETTER ENFORCEMENT.

ANOTHER FRAME, PROBLEM IS WE

HAVE A LOT OF THE OF PUBLIC

POLICIES THAT MOSTLY DON'T WORK

AND IN FACT HAVE UNEQUAL AND

RESTRICTIVE BURDENS PLACED ON

PEOPLE SOMETIME ON RACE.

U.S. CONSTITUTION GIVES EVERYONE

THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS.

GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO PROTECT THAT

RIGHT FIRST AND FOREMOST.

AGAIN MANY COMPETING FRAMES.

WE ARE FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HAVE

A GROUP OF EXPERTS TO DISCUSS

THIS COMPLEX TOPIC.

HONORED TO INTRODUCE THEM ALL TO

YOU.

THRILLED TO INTRODUCE JANE BACK

TO CAMPUS.

AFTER ATTENDING UNIVERSITY OF

MICHIGAN AS AN UNDERGRADE.

SHE IS NOW A SENIOR POLITICS

REPORTER AT VOX AND WRITES ON A

WIDE RANGE OF ISSUES CONSERVE

TIFF POLITICS, PROFESSIONAL

SPORTS AND RACEST HISTORY OF GUN

CONTROL IN THE UNITED STATES.

NEXT DR. REBECCA CUNNINGHAM.

HERE AT THE FORD SCHOOL TODAY,

EMERGENCY ROOM PHYSICIAN DR.

CUNNINGHAM IS PROFESSOR OF

PUBLIC HEALTH AND ALSO HAS TIME

TO BE THE DIRECTOR OF THE

UNIVER

UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN INJURY

PREVENTION CENTER.

SPECIAL FOCUS ON INJURY FROM

FIREARM VIOLENCE AND OPIOID AND

OTHER DRUG OVERDOSE.

VERY FORTUNATE TO HAVE DR.

JONATHAN METZEL.

DOCTOR IS AT VANDERBILT

UNIVERSITY WHERE HE IS THE

FREDRICK B. WRENCHLER THE SECOND

AND DIRECTOR OF MEDICINE, HEALTH

AND SOCIETY.

BOARD CERTFIED PSYCHOLOGIST.

EXPERT ON MENTAL ILLNESS, HEALTH

INEQUITIES AND GUN VIOLENCE.

REGARDLESS OF WHAT NATIONAL NEWS

TV PROGRAM, YOU HAVE LIKELY SEEN

HIM ON THAT SHOW.

I SEE YOU AT THE GYM QUITE A

BIT, ACTUALLY.

PLEASE JOIN ME IN WELCOMING OUR

DISTINGUISHED PANELISTS TODAY.

[APPLAUSE]

SO WE ARE GOING TO START OUT

JUST BY HAVING OUR PANELIST TALK

OUR THEIR OWN WORK, SOME OF THE

WORK THEY HAVE DONE AND GIVE

THEM A CHANCE TO LAY OUT FOR ALL

OF US HOW THEY SEE THIS ISSUE

AND WHAT -- YOU HAVE FIVE

MINUTES, WHAT THEY WANT US TO

KNOW ABOUT THEM AND HOW THEY

WORK AND THINK ABOUT THIS ISSUE

AS WE GET FURTHER INTO THIS

DISCUSSION, WE ARE GOING TO

START WITH JANE.

>> HI, EVERYONE, NICE TO BE

BACK.

FUNNY TO HAVE GRADUATED 10 YEARS

AGO, WALKING AROUND AND BTB

BURRITOS 
IS STILL HERE.

MY WORK IS FOCUSSED ON GUN

VIOLENCE FROM A LEGAL AND

JOURNALISTIC ISSUE NOT SO MUCH

AS PUBLIC HEALTH ISSUE.

A LOT OF MY WRITING FOCUSES ON

CONSERVATISM AND GOP

SPECIFICALLY ABOUT GUN RIGHTS.

I HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT GUN RIGHTS

AND WHO HAS ACCESS.

I HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT THE RACIST

HISTORY OF GUN CONTROL WHICH IN

ANY WAYS YOU SEE IN THE

ANTEBELLUM SOUTH AND JIM CROW.

YOU HAD FIGURES LIKE HARRIET

TUBMAN WISELY RECOGNIZED A

WINCHESTER RIFLE WAS THE ONLY

THING 
THAT STOOL BETWEEN THEM.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE

MILFORD ACT BANNED OPEN CARRY OF

WEAPONS IN CALIFORNIA SET IN

PLACE BY THEN GOVERNOR RONALD

REAGAN WHO SAW THE BLACK

PANTHERS PROTESTING HOLDING LONG

GUNS.

THAT JUST CAN'T HAPPEN.

I THINK HAVING THE HISTORICAL

CONTEXT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GUNS

AND GUN VIOLENCE IS SOMETHING

REAL LE IMPORTANT TO ME.

ALSO AND THE CONVERSATIONS I

HAVE WITH CONSERVATIVES.

ALSO I THINK WE ARE GOING TO

TALK ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT.

WHEN YOU TALK TO CONSERVATIVES

AND LEGAL SCHOLARS, PUBLIC

POLICY ON GUNS NEEDS TO FIT INTO

A NARROW SPACE CREATED BY THE

UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION AND

SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED

STATES.

INTO THAT SPACE IS WHERE PUBLIC

POLICY ON GUNS NEEDS TO BE.

I THINK PUTTING IT INTO THAT

FRAMEWORK IS HELPFUL.

IT IS ALSO REALLY DEPRESSING,

OTHER COUNTRIES MAY HAVE HAVE

MASSIVE GUN BUY BACK PROGRAMS.

OKAY, THOSE OTHER COUNTRIES ARE

NOT THIS ONE.

WE NEED TO ABIDE BY THE

FRAMEWORK SET UP WE HAVE NOW OR

WE NEED TO CHANGE THE

CONSTITUTIONAL FRAMEWORK AND

THERE IS A PROCESS BY WHICH WE

CAN DO THAT AND WELCOME YOU TO

TRY.

KEEPING HISTORICAL CONTEXT FOR

DIFFERENT GROUPS OF PEOPLE, WHAT

ACCESS TO GUNS IS MEANT AND WHAT

THAT ACCESS HAS LOOKED LIKE ON A

DAY-TO-DAY BASIS.

ALSO WRECK NIEZ -- RECOGNIZING

TO GUIDE US FORWARD ON WHAT

POLICIES NOT SO MUCH WORK OR

DON'T BUT ARE POSSIBLE OR

IMPOSSIBLE.

>> GREAT, THANK YOU.

REBECCA.

>> THIS IS GOING TO BE FUN.

[LAUGHTER] I AM AN EMERGENCY

PHYSICIAN BY TRAINING.

ALSO WITH PUBLIC HEALTH

BACKGROUND.

AS THE DIRECTOR OF THE INJURY

PREVENTION CENTER HERE, I BRING

THE FRAME OF FIREARMS -- NOT

THOUGHT OF TO BE THE OTHER

MECHANISMS OF INJURY WE HAVE

SPEND TIME ON, MOTOR VEHICLE TO

FIRE, BURN TO OPIOIDS.

I ALSO BRING AS A PRACTICING

PHYSICIAN THAT HAS TAKEN CARE OF

PATIENTS HERE AND IN FLINT,

MICHIGAN AT THE BEDSIDE GIVING

BAD NEWS TO PARENTS AND FAMILY.

I BRING TO THIS THE FRAME OF

HAND OUT THAT SHOWS THE TRENDS

OF DEATH OVER TIME.

WE LOOK AT THE DEATH RATES

PASSED 10-15 YEARS, FIREARMS ARE

THE SECOND LEADING CAUSE OF

DEATH AMONG CHILDREN AND TEENS

IN OUR COUNTRY, 1-19 AS OF 2017,

IT IS AGES 1-17.

WE ARE NOT ALLOWING THE CHILDREN

IN OUR COUNTRY TO BE 18 YEAR

OLDS.

WE ARE CUTTING OFF ABOUT

LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IF YOU

ARE A TEENAGER REGARDLESS, YOUR

MECHANISM OF DEATH IS MOST

LIKELY TO BE FIREARM.

IF YOU ARE NOT WHITE, MOST

LIKELY THING YOU WILL DIE OF

AFTER I RELEASE YOU WILL BE A

FIREARM BEFORE YOUR 18TH

BIRTHDAY.

THAT IS THE FRAMING I BRING.

I HAVE A MUCH MORE INTERESTED

VIEW.

THAT IS A NARROW NICHE FOR THE

CONSTITUTION AT ALL.

ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT IS A

MILE WIDE.

FRAMING I BRING TO THIS WITH

FIREARM, SAFETY WITH TEEN C

CONS

CONSORTION.

WE HAVE A STAKEHOLDER GROUP AND

FOCUSSED ON THE FACT WE HAVE

SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS IN THIS

COUNTRY AND SO MUCH WE COULD DO

WITHIN THOSE SECOND AMENDMENT

RIGHTS WE HAVEN'T BEGIN TO TRY

TO DO.

BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF ATTENTION

AND HOW MUCH OF THIS TOPIC HAS

BEEN A THIRD RAIL.

WE DO NOT -- WE HAVE CARS IN

THIS COUNTRY, I AM NOT GOING

BACK TO ANY HORSE AND BUGGY.

WE HAVE MORE CARS AND MILES

DRIVEN.

PLENTY OF ROOM TO DO SOMETHING

AT THE BED SIDES AND PUBLIC

HEALTH ON THIS TOPIC.

>> THANK YOU EVERYONE, SUCH A

PLEASURE TO COME BACK HOME.

I WANT TO THANK GILL.

I UNDERSTAND WHY I AM SITTING IN

THE MIDDLE.

I AM A FRAME SHIFTER IN A WAY.

I DON'T EVER ADOPT ONE FRAME.

I HAVE HAD THREE MAJOR FRAMES.

I STARTED OFF MY ENGAGEMENT WITH

THIS ISSUE OF GUNS AND GUN

RIGHTS WHEN I WAS HERE AT THE

UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN.

I WROTE A BOOK PROTEST PSYCHOSIS

AND THE WAYS THE ANGRY BLACK MAN

BECAME A MEDICALIZED THREAT

THROUGH JAMES BROWN AND MALCOM

XALL THE SUDDEN THEY WERE SEEN

AS INSANE.

PART OF THE STORY IS A STORY

ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED WHEN BLACK

MEN TRIED TO ACCESS GUN RIGHTS.

WE HAVE A RIGHT TO PROTECT

OURSELVES.

A LOT OF PEOPLE HAD A REASON TO

PROTECT THEMSELVES, POLITICAL

LEADERS LIKE ROBERT WILLIAMS AND

NAACP, CAROLINAS, MALCOM X.

PEOPLE WERE SAYING THE POLICE

AREN'T PROTECTING US.

WE HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT

TO PROTECT OURSELVES AND

GOVERNMENT IS TYRANNICAL.

WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THESE BLACK

POLITICAL LEADERS TRIED TO

ACCESS RIGHTS, FULL WEIGHT OF

THE GOVERNMENT CAME DOWN ON

THEM.

THEY WERE ALL DIAGNOSED WITH

SCHIZOPHRENIA.

WILLIAMS WAS CHASEED TO CUBA.

RELATIONSHIP GUN RIGHTS AND GUN

CONTROL.

ALSO WHAT HAPPENED IN CALIFORNIA

W

WITH BLACK PEN THEY ARES.

SECOND PHASE OF MY CAREER WAS

ALL OF A SUDDEN, STAND YOUR

GROUND SHOOTING IN FLORIDA.

ZIMMERMAN AND TRAYVON MARTIN

AND 
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN BLACK BOYS

AND MEN ARE SEEN AS THREATS.

SOME HOW LED INTO ME GETTING

CALLED AS A PSYCHIATRIST INTO

EVERY MASS SHOOTING.

I SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN THE

GYM.

I ENJOY THIS MSNBC TO FOX NEWS

AND EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN.

I BECAME A VOICE ABOUT THIS

RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN GUNS AND

ME

MENTAL ILLNESS.

I STARTED GOING ON MEDIA, SAME

STIGMAIZATIONS HAPPENING AROUND

AFRICAN-AMERICAN MEN GETTING

APPLIED TO PEOPLE WITH MENTAL

ILLNESS.

I THINK THERE ARE REAL STORIES

WE NEED TO TELL AFTER MASS

SHOOTINGS.

HERE IS MENTAL ILLNESS AND HERE

IS MASS SHOOTING.

WHAT I TRIED TO ARGUE IS THERE

ARE ALL THESE OTHER STORIES THAT

PLAY OUT IN MASS SHOOTINGS, GUN

AC

ACCESS, WHO GETS TO CARRY A GUN

AND STOCK PILE A GUN.

I STARTED DOING A LOT OF THE OF

MEDIA.

THIS MEDIA STORY TOOK OFF.

I ENDED UP GETTING INTERESTED IN

GUNS AND POLITICS.

TRANSITION ING -- SAFE TENNESSEE

PROJECT.

SIMILARLY, BIPARTISAN POLICY

INSTITUTE THAT FORMS CENTRIST

BIPARTISAN CONSENSUS ABOUT

REASONABLE GUN REFORM.

>> I AM SO HEARTENED BY THE

EXISTENCE OF THIS.

>> WE STARTED WITH LOW HANGING

FRUIT.

WE HAD BIPARTISAN SUPPORT FOR

PARTICULAR BILLS.

VERY LAST MINUTE, NRA LOBBYIST

AND KEEP US FROM FORMING ANY

CONSENSUS.

SECOND LESSON I LEARNED ABOUT

THE FORCES THAT WANT TO KEEP US

THINKING EITHER PROOR ANTI.

FORCES THAT BENEFIT FROM KEEPING

US POLARIZED.

THEN I'LL SAY.

LAST PART IS A SCHOLARLY PART.

I HAVE A BOOK COMING OUT IN A

COUPLE OF MONTHS, BACK IN

MICHIGAN IN APRIL.

I AM FROM MISSOURI.

I WENT THROUGH RURAL MISSOURI

TALKING TO PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT

GUNS MEANT TO THEM AND SCOURGE

OF WHITE MALE SUICIDE.

WHEN I DIDN'T USE CHARGE WORDS

LIKE GUN CONTROL OR GUN RIGHTS,

I FOUND A MUCH MORE NUANCED-RICH

PICTURE.

I AM FOR NRA BUT FOR A GUN SAFE

OR GUN LOCK.

I WANT TO KEEP MY COMMUNITY

SAFE.

I DEVELOPED FRUSTRATION ABOUT

HOW POLARIZATION IS ENFORCED.

AND PEOPLE BENEFIT FROM THE

POLARIZATION.

IF I COULD SAY ONE LAST THING.

IT IS TO ADD -- LEAD INTO THE

NEXT.

ANOTHER THING I LEARNED FROM

THIS THING LIKE THE

CONSTITUTION, THE SECOND

AMENDMENT, DOCUMENT HASN'T

ALWAYS BEEN THE SAME.

MULTIPLE REINTERPRETATIONS, WE

ARE ABOUT TO SEE ANOTHER ONE.

IN A WAY POLITICAL SHIFTS ABOUT

HOW WE INTERPRET SECOND

AMENDMENT THAT ARE PART OF THE

ISSUE.

>> THAT WAS GREAT.

ACTUALLY, YOU ALL TOUCHED A BIT

ON THE NEXT THING WE WANT TO

TALK ABOUT.

THAT IS DO YOU THINK FROM YOUR

PERSPECTIVE, WHAT ARE THE WAYS

IN WHICH THIS ISSUE ARE TALKED

ABOUT ARE THE MOST UNPRODUCTIVE

THAT YOU WISH THE MEDIA WOULD

STOP DOING OR ADVOCACY GROUPS OR

POLICY MAKERS?

WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL BE THE

MOST PRODUCTIVE WAYS TO HAVE

THESE CONVERSATIONS AND ACTUALLY

MOVE CONVERSATION AND

POTENTIALLY POLICY ACTION

FORWARD, REBECCA?

>> YOU SET THIS UP BEAUTIFULLY

FOR ME.

POLARIZATION IS NOT NECESSARY.

SOLUTIONS ARE MUCH MORE NUANCED

THAN MANY FORCES WOULD BELIEVE.

IF YOU CAN WALK AWAY FROM ONE

THING.

IF YOU CAN NEVER WRITE ONE THING

AGAIN, GUN CONTROL NEEDS TO BE

ELIMINATED FROM OUR LANGUAGE.

BACK TO MY HISTORICAL ROOTS, IF

I TOLD YOU I WAS GOING TO TALK

TO YOU ABOUT CAR CONTROL.

THERE IS NO HEALTH BEHAVIOR

TECHNIQUE TELLING PEOPLE YOU ARE

GOING TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT

CONTROLLING THEM.

IT IS A FRAME THAT IS NOT

PARTICULARLY HELPFUL AT ALL.

NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE WAY WE

THINK OF INJURY PREVENTION

SCIENCE WHICH IS A SCIENCE IN

ANY OTHER FRAMEWORK.

WE THINK ABOUT SAFETY.

WE ARE FIRE ALARM SAFETY.

WITH THAT FRAME, YOU

AUTOMATICALLY START WITH A

COMMON UNDERSTANDING, GUNS ARE

GOING TO EXIST IN OUR CULTURE.

CARS ARE GOING TO EXIST.

TOGETHER WE HAVE TO WORK HOW

THOSE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE

MORE SAFE AND LESS CHILDREN

DEAD, FOR EXAMPLE.

WHEN WE TALK WITH STAKEHOLDERS

ACROSS POLITICAL SPECTRUM AS

WELL.

I HAVE YET TO FIND A SINGLE NRA

GUN MEMBER WHO SAYS HE WOULD

LIKE HIS GRANDCHILD TO END UP

DEAD FROM A GUN.

WE ALL AGREE WE WOULD NOT LIKE

CHILDREN AND TEENS DYING

INADVERTENTLY.

WE THINK ABOUT A SAFETY FRAME.

THAT IS MY STICK ON FRAME

CHANGE.

>> THANK YOU.

FOR THE BOOK I HAVE OUT, I SPOKE

TO PEOPLE THAT HAD CHILDREN DIE

THAT ARE PROGUNS, THEY WERE THE

SAME AFTER.

YOU TOUCHED ON THE PRESSING

ISSUE FROM OUR TIME.

FUCH, FUCH SO MUCH HARDER.

OTHER PEOPLE MORTIFIED AT THE

SITE

OF THE GUN.

IF YOU GIVE AN INCH YOU'LL GIVE

A YARD.

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, I DO FEEL

IN THE GUN VIOLENCE PREVENTION

COMMUNITY, THERE IS A MOVE TO

SAYING THE SECOND AMENDMENT

EXISTS, WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE

AWAY ANYBODY'S GUNS.

IF I AGREE ON SOMETHING I

ACTUALLY MAYBE AGREE ON I'LL

GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE, LAS VEGAS

SHOOTING, SHOOTER USED A BUMP

STOCK.

TURNS SEMIAUTOMATIC WEAPON INTO

AN AUTOMATIC WEAPON.

I DON'T KNOW IF MANY PEOPLE THAT

HAVE EATEN DINNER WITH A BUMP

STOCK.

NO REAL HUNTING REASON TO HAVE A

BUMP IS TO BE STOCK.

PEOPLE SAD I CAN SEE BUMP

STOCKS, BUT THERE WAS A FEAR

GIVING UP AN INCH WAS TO GIVE UP

THE WHOLE FARM.

THAT IS PART OF THE ISSUE THAT

FRAMES LIKE PUBLIC HEALTH HAVE

HAD A HARD TIME ACCOUNTING FOR.

THERE ARE FRAMES LIKE DANIEL

WEBSTER AND GROUP FROM JOHN'S

HOPKINS WENT INTO MISSOURI.

FOUND OUT A PARTICULAR BILL IN

MISSOURI PASSED IN 2008 LED TO A

WHOLE HOST OF OTHER CHANGES AND

ARGUMENT IS THEY SHOULD GO BACK

TO EARLIER LAWS AND IMPLEMENT

GUN CONTROL.

THEY NEVER ASKED THE PEOPLE WHAT

DOES YOUR GUN MEAN TO YOU?

IT WAS IMMEDIATELY REJECTED BY

PEOPLE LIKE LOT AND OTHERS THAT

WRITE PRO-GUN POLICIES.

IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT

STUDYING GUN POLICY.

INTERESTING TO SEE THE DIFFERENT

RESPONSES AND THE WAY IT IS

FRAMED.

I THINK THAT IS A PROBLEM.

IT IS A PROBLEM TO BE ADDRESSED.

WE ALSO NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO

WHO IS KEEPING US POLARIZED.

AM I OVER TIME ALREADY?

THE TWO FRAMES I NEED TO THINK

ABOUT GOING FORWARD.

TIES TO THE ISSUES PEOPLE TALKED

ABOUT ALREADY, RELATIONSHIP

BETWEEN ACTIVISM, WE ARE SEEING

GUN ACTIVISM.

MOMS DEMAND AND GROUPS LIKE

THAT.

PARKLAND ISSUE -- SHOOTING.

THAT IS GOING TO INFLUENCE HOW

PEOPLE OWN, CARRY, TRANSPORT,

BUY, THINK ABOUT GUNS IN THIS

COUNTRY.

PART OF THE ISSUE IS THERE IS

THE ACTIVISM REALM AND ACADEMIC

REALM.

I THINK 
AT THE JUDGE LEVEL.

THERE IS NOT THE SAME LEVEL.

>> EXACTLY.

I WOULD SAY GOING OFF OF THAT.

I AM THE PERSON HERE FROM THE

MEDIA.

I AM NOT SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF

THE MEDIA.

I WOULD NEED TO CONSULT A WHOLE

LOT OF PEOPLE.

YOU MENTIONED THE PEOPLE

VORSHACK TEST.

WE USED THE IDEA OF GUNS.

CERTAIN GROUPS THAT REALLY KIND

OF WANT YOU TO DO THAT.

I HAVE DONE A TON OF REPORTING

ON THE NRA AND ITS CURRENT

FINANCIAL SITUATION WHICH IS NOT

GRE

GREAT.

ONCE THEY BECAME IN THE 1970S,

IT WAS A SPORTSMAN'S

ORGANIZATION.

YOU WERE GOING TO GO OUT AND

HUNT BUCK, DEER.

THIS IS THE ORGANIZATION FOR

YOU.

IT TURNED INTO A -- I THINK THIS

IS SOMETHING PEOPLE SAID IT IS A

NEW THING, IT IS NOT NEW HOW THE

NRA HAS SEEN GUNS AS A CULTURAL

ISSUE.

WE SAW THIS IN THE EARLY 1990S,

NRA DESCRIBED THE FBI AS JACK

BOOTED THUGS CAUSING FORMER

PRESIDENT H.W. BUSH TO RESIGN S.

FOR ONE THING KIND OF REMOVES

INTERESTING, TENSION.

THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF THEY

WERE LIKE TO RESPOND TO GAY

BASHING PERHAPS -- CERTAIN

SUPREME COURT CASES 
DEUCEY VS.

HELLER.

THAT WAS ABOUT THE ISSUE OF

AFRICAN-AMERICAN GUN OWNERS AND

HOW THEY CAN BE OWNED IN THE

DISTRICT 
OF COLUMBIA.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THE

SPECIFICS OF BUMP STOCKS WHICH

IS A FASCINATING ISSUE.

THAT IS WHY THIS PARTICULAR

ADMINISTRATION HAS MOVED AWAY

FROM THE POSITION.

GUN RIGHTS COMMUNITY IS SUING

THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OVER

THE BUMP STOCK BAND.

IT IS INTERESTING HOW THIS

CONVERSATION HAS BECOME A

POLITICAL ONE A LOT OF THE OF

WAYS DIDN'T NEED TO BE.

YOU WERE TALK ABOUT THAT

ENFORCED POLARIZATION.

WHEN I TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT FOR

EXAMPLE, CHILD ACCESS PREVENTION

LAWS --

THE AGE AT WHICH

EVERYBODY IS APPLICABLE IS

INSANELY LOW.

IF YOU ARE A CHILD UNDER THE AGE

OF 11, AND YOU USE A GUN TO DO

SOMETHING THEN YOUR PARENTS

COULD BE HELD RESPONSIBLE.

FOR SOMEONE OLDER THAT IS NOT

APPLICABLE.

THEY WERE LIKE OKAY, THIS IS A

FORMER POLICY GUN RIGHTS

ADVOCATES COULD GET BEHIND.

ONE POINTING OUT IT WAS RETRO

AC

ACTIVE.

FOR A LOT OF US WE TAKE THE IDEA

AS YOU SAID ONE STEP IS A MILE.

COME AND TAKE THEM.

ANY STEP WHATSOEVER IS GIVING IN

ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.

I THINK THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF

THE POLARIZATION.

YOU CAN OWN THEM WE ALSO NEED

SAFETY EXAMINATIONS.

YOU ARE

CURTAILING EXPRESSION IN

A SENSE.

THAT MAKES CONVERSATION

DIFFICULT TO HAVE.

ESPECIALLY IN AN ENVIRONMENT

DIFFICULT TO SAY -- 
I THINK THAT

POLARIZATION AND HOW GUNS HAVE

BECOME A WAY OF GETTING TO KNOW

SOMEONE'S POLITICS.

THAT HAS BEEN A BIG HINDRANCE TO

THIS CONVERSATION GOING FORWARD.

>> THANKS, I WANT TO REMIND YOU

ALL WE WILL BE HAVING Q&A WITH

THE AUDIENCE COMING UP SOON.

WRITE YOUR QUESTIONS ON THE

CARDS AND ALSO FOR OUR ONLINE

AUDIENCE.

WE WELCOME YOUR PARTICIPATION.

IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT THROUGH

TWITTER,

#POLICY TALKS.

WE ARE GOING TO SCHOOL PUBLIC

POLICY.

WE LIKE TO TALK ABOUT POLICY.

TO OUR DISTINGUISHED GUESTS,

HERE IS YOUR CHANCE, TOP TWO

PUBLIC POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS

THAT YOU BELIEVE ARE OF THE

HIGHEST PRIORITY FOR REDUCING,

SUFFERING, PAIN AND LOSS GUN

VIOLENCE HAS IN OUR SOCIETY.

COULD BE SOMETHING YOU WANT TO

PROMOTE OR POLICY RECOMMENDATION

OF SOMETHING THAT SHOULD NOT BE

PURSUED.

JOHNATHON.

>> I AM GOING TO DO THE THING

JANE SAID NOT TO DO THIS OR

THAT.

I WILL SAY ON ONE HAND ANSWER IS

NOT A MYSTERY.

IF YOUR FRAME IS GUN RELATING

DEATH, THERE ARE JUST CLEAR

LINES, CLEAR GRAPHS BETWEEN

EFFECTIVE PARTICULAR STATE LAWS,

NUMBER OF GUNS IN CIRCULATION

AND JUST THE KIND OF SHOOTINGS.

I LIVE IN THE STATE, TENNESSEE

WE MADE IT EASIER, I LIVE IN

THIS PLACE CALLED PRINTERS ALLEY

IN NASHVILLE.

PEOPLE CAN JUST BRING THEIR GUNS

INTO BARS.

I WORRY ABOUT A GUY I JUST GOT A

RAISE.

IF YOU CARE ABOUT PUBLIC POLICY,

DON'T LET GUNS INTO BARS, 5-7

CHANCE MORE LIKELY CHANCE OF GUN

RELATED INJURY AND DEATH.

YOU DON'T WANT TO MAKE IT EASIER

PERMITLESS CARRY.

REDUCING POWER OF BACKGROUND

CHECKS.

PEOPLE WHO FLAG ON AN IDEALIZED

BACKGROUND CHECK ARE PEOPLE WITH

DOMESTIC ABUSE AND AT HIGHER

RISK OF SHOOTING THEIR PARTNERS.

I THINK THE TAKE HOME POINT FROM

A POLICY POINT IS ON ONE HAND.

I THINK IF WE NATIONALIZE THE

BACKGROUND CHECK SYSTEM AND

CLOSED GUN SHOW LOOPHOLES AND

MADE IT MORE UNIFORM SO YOU

CAN'T TRANSPORT ACROSS STATE

LINES.

STATES THAT HAVE MORE STRICT

BACKGROUND SYSTEMS HAVE LESS GUN

RELATED INJURY AND DEATH BY 50%.

IF INJURY AND DEATH IS YOUR

FRAME, THERE IS NO MYSTERY.

YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE ARTICLES

THAT STARTED THE SO-CALLED BAN

IN THE FIRST PLACE.

THEY ARE NOT INCREDIBLY

CONTROVERSIAL.

KELLERMAN ARGUED IN 1990S, HOMES

WITH GUNS HAD MORE SHOOTINGS.

THAT IS THE CRUX OF IT.

MORE PARTNER SHOOTINGS AND

SUICIDES.

WOULD BE HARDER TO HAVE MORE

SHOOTINGS.

SELF-EVIDENT IN A PARTICULAR

WAY.

THIS TAPPED INTO SOMETHING DEEP

THAT TIED INTO THIS QUESTION OF

IDENTITY.

POINT NO. 1, FRAME IS INJURY AND

DEATH.

THERE IS NOT A HUGE MYSTERY.

>> IT WAS JUST ABOUT -- JURP AND

DEATH, LOOK AT NEW YORK.

LOOK AT D.C. LOOK AT OTHER

CITIES.

LESS PARTNER VIOLENCE LESS GUN

SUICIDES.

LESS SHOOTINGS, POLICE GETTING

SHOT.

THAT IS ON ONE HAND.

ON THE OTHER HAND.

I THINK THAT THERE IS A LOT OF

CONCERNING AMONG PEOPLE.

IT IS FUNNY PEOPLE ON THE

PRO-GUN SIDE THEY REJECT PUBLIC

HEALTH OUT OF HAND.

THEY ARGUE IT IS A TAINTED

GOVERNMENT MODEL.

GOAL IS UNDERLYING.

THERE IS UNDERLYING ANTIGUN

HEALTH.

I DO THINK IT IS VERY INCUMBENT

ON PUBLIC HEALTH.

IF IT WANTS TO MAKE A DENT HERE,

ALSO LOOK AT THE MEANINGS OF

GUNS IN PRO-GUN COMMUNITIES AND

THINK ABOUT WAYS TO ENGAGE THE

POLICIES.

THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POINT.

MY TAKE HOME IS THAT IF WE CAN

SOLVE THE QUESTION OF WHAT ARE

THE POLICIES THAT ARE GOING TO

WORK AND DIFFERENT PRO-GUN

COMMUNITIES WE COULD SOLVE THIS

NATIONALLY.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT GETS US

DOWN.

IN A NUTSHELL MORE BACKGROUND

CHECKS, GUN VIOLENCE RESTRAINING

ORDERS.

I THINK THOSE WOULD BE FOR ME,

THE TWO THAT WOULD CUT GUN DEATH

BY AT LEAST A HALF.

>> I THINK THE ISSUE OF GUN

VIOLENCE RESTRAINING ORDERS.

THAT IS SOMETHING WE CAN WORK

WITH.

I THINK THAT THE INTERNAL

MECHANICS, GUN VIOLENCE

RESTRAINING ORDER INVOLVES GOING

TO A JUDGE, THIS PERSON SHOULD

NOT BE PERMITTED TO HAVE AND

POSSESS GUNS.

THAT GETS INTO, ALL OF THIS IS

GOING TO GET MESSY.

YOU ARE DEALING WITH THE

INTERNAL LIVES OF INDIVIDUALS.

WHEN I WAS THINKING HOW BEST TO

ANSWER THIS QUESTION, ARE WE

TALKING ABOUT INTIMATE VIOLENCE?

MASS SHOOTINGS?

THERE ARE DIFFERENT POLICY

PRIORITIES FOR BOTH.

BOTH HAVE DIFFERENT MODELS.

I KNOW IT IS NOT NECESSARILY A

POLICY PRIORITY.

ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WE SEE

WITH MASS SHOOTINGS.

THEY CREATE THEIR OWN HATE

GEOGRAPHY.

WE SAW THAT WITH COLUMBINE.

EVEN THE FACT THAT I CAN LIST

OFF PLACE AND SHOOTER IN A

NUMBER OF MASS SHOOTINGS SINCE

MEDIA TO STOP DOING THAT.

DO NOT PUBLICIZE THE NAMES OF

SHOOTERS.

TRY TO REALLY FOCUS ON WHAT HAS

TAKEN PLACE AND THE PEOPLE LOST.

THERE HAS BEEN INTERESTING

RESEARCH ON THE COPY CAT EFFECT

YOU SEE FROM CERTAIN MASS

SHOOTINGS.

WHEN IT COMES TO EVERYDAY

SHOOTINGS, I DON'T MEAN TO BE

FLIP IN ANY WAY, I MEAN

SHOOTINGS SOMETHING OVER AN

ARGUMENT OR SOMETHING THAT

HAPPENS AS A RESULT OF DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE.

GUN VIOLENCE RESTRAINING ORDERS

ARE IMPORTANT.

CHILD ACCESS RESTRAINING LAWS.

THEY WORK RETRO ACTIVELY AND AN

IMPORTANT TOUCH STONE TO BEGIN

TALK ABOUT HOW PARTICIPATES ARE

INTERACTING.

I BELIEVE IT WAS A CASE IN

NASHVILLE, WAFFLE HOUSE, IN

WHICH THE SHOOTER HAD HIS GUNS

TAKEN AWAY, RETURNED TO HIS

FATHER WHICH RETURNED THEM TO

THE CHILD IN QUESTION.

QUESTION WAS 19, TENNESSEE HAVE

A CAP LAW BUT DOESN'T APPLY

BECAUSE HE WAS TOO OLD.

I ALSO THINK SOMETHING THAT'S

IMPORTANT THAT I WOULD WANT TO

PRIORITIZE, OCCASIONALLY WHEN WE

ARE TALKING ABOUT, YOU BROUGHT

UP THE POINT TALKING TO PRO-GUN

COMMUNITIES, HOW THEY FEEL AND

GUN LAW THAT IS WORK FOR THEM.

SOMETHING I NOTICED IN MY

REPORTING, WHEN YOU TALK TO SOME

FOLKS, HOW THEY THINK ABOUT GUNS

IS DIFFERENT FROM HOW THEY THINK

PEOPLE THAT OWN GUNS IN OTHER

COMMUNITIES THINK ABOUT GUNS.

THEIR GUNS IS VERY MUCH, THIS IS

MY MEANS OF SELF-DEFENSE.

YOU GET THE WHAT ABOUT CHICAGO.

THEY ARE USING GUNS TO BE

TERRIBLE AND SHOOT EVERYONE.

WHEREAS IF YOU GO TO TALK TO

PEOPLE LIVING IN BALTIMORE

ELSEWHERE INTERESTED IN OWNING

GUNS, THEY ARE INTERESTED IN

OWNING GUNS SAME REASON SMM

SOMEONE IN DUBUQUE, IOWA OR

BOISE, OR THEY WANT TO GO TO A

GUN RANGE AT SOME POINT.

WHILE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT

NATIONALIZING POLICY PRIORITIES,

TALKING TO COMMUNITIES ABOUT

GUNS, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE

COMMUNITIES UNDERSTAND THEY ARE

NOT AS DISSIMILAR AS THEY THINK.

I THINK YOU GET THE SENSE SOME

FOLKS THESE URBAN AREA THAT IS

SEE GUN VIOLENCE HAPPENING FOR

VERY DIFFERENT REASONS THAN GUN

VIOLENCE IN SUBURBAN OR RURAL

AREAS.

I DON'T THINK IT IS.

SAME HUMAN IMPULSES EXIST IN A

LOT OF THESE DIFFERENT

COMMUNITIES AND SHOULD BE ABLE

TO TALK ABOUT GUNS ACROSS

COMMUNITIES IN A WAY THAT IS A

LOT MORE EFFECTIVE ON STOPPING

GUN VIOLENCE AND NOT DOING SO

MUCH DIVISION AND POLARIZATION.

>> ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS WE

HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT LATELY IN

DATA IS EXACTLY THAT

POLARIZATION THERE IS A CONCEPT

FIREARM VIOLENCE AND INJURY AND

DEATH HAPPENS IN SOMEONE ELSE'S

NEIGHBORHOOD MORE.

THERE IT IS A PROBLEM.

DATA FOUND FOR KIDS AND TEENS

RATES OF KIDS AND TEENS DYING IS

EXACTLY SAME IN SUBURBAN AND

RURAL AND URBAN AMERICA.

MECHANISM IS DIFFERENT.

ESSENTIALLY, RATES ARE IN

EVERYBODY'S BACKYARD.

THAT IS HOW YOU START TO GET

COMMUNITIES, WHEN YOU SAY WE

NEED TO GET COMMUNITIES TALKING,

THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

UNTIL NOW, NO ABILITY TO HAVE

CONVERSATION WITH THAT.

SO IS TO WHAT WE THINK WE CAN

DO.

I SIT HERE FIRST OF ALL WITH A

RESEARCH HAT ON.

SECOND OF ALL, RUNNING OUR

CONSORTIUM.

I HEARD YOU MENTIONED A NUMBER

OF TIMES, WE KNOW, THIS RESEARCH

SHOWS THIS ABOUT POLICY.

DATA SHOWS THIS MY REACTION TO

THAT, WE KNOW ALMOST NOTHING.

THERE HAS BEEN NO DATA.

OUR ABILITY TO HAVE

CONVERSATIONS HAS BEEN 100% IN A

VACUUM.

LITTLE COMPARISON FOR THAT TREND

GRAPH.

OVER THAT LAST 10-YEAR PERIOD,

WE SPENT A BILLION DOLLARS ON

MOTOR VEHICLE CRASH RESEARCH.

WE HAVE AN ENTIRE BUILDING

DEDICATED TO TRANSPORTATION

RESEARCH AND SPEND A LOT OF

MONEY IN THIS COUNTRY.

NO. 3 CAUSE IS CANCER.

WE HAVE AN ENTIRE CANCER

INSTITUTE.

ALMOST EVERY MAJOR MEDICAL

CAMPUS HAS A CANCER INSTITUTE.

IN THAT SAME PERIOD FOR FIREARM

VIOLENCE, WE SPENT THREE MILLION

DOLLARS.

WE GAVE OUT NINE GRANTS IN THIS

COUNTRY.

PEOPLE YOU MENTION, YOU HAVE

BEEN DOING A LOT OF THE OF WORK

ON LOOKING IN THE POLICY AS IS

DANIEL WEBSTER AND I CAN NAME

THE OTHER THREE ON MY HAND

PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SCRAPING BY IN

THEIR CLOSET WITH DOLLARS

SCRAPED TOGETHER LOOK AT

SOMETHING AND TOO TERRIFIED 
TO

PUB ESTABLISHED AND AFRAID TO

POST IT.

TEN YEARS AGO I COULDN'T GET A

SINGLE JUNIOR FACULTY BECAUSE

THERE WAS NO CAREER PATH.

ONE CAN'T GET PROMOTION AND

TENURE WITHOUT GRANTS AND

FUNDING.

NO CAREER PATH.

DR. CUNNINGHAM, I WILL STUDY

SOMETHING ELSE, THANK YOU VERY

MUCH.

WE HAVE SEEN THIS LATELY

BEAUTIFULLY WITH THE OPIOID

CRISIS.

WE DECIDED WE DON'T WANT THIS

MANY PEOPLE DYING FROM OPIOID

OVERDOSES WHICH IS AS

STIGMATIZED AS A PROBLEM.

WE ARE DUMPING MILLIONS AND

MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS

INTO THIS AND ALL OF OUR

COMMUNITIES AND MAKING IT A

PRIORITY.

WE ARE MAKING REAL PROGRESS AND

INROADS.

WE ARE NOWHERE NEAR THE TOP OF

THE EPIDEMIC.

IF WE GAVE PART OF THAT AMOUNT

OF FUNDING TO FIREARM VIOLENCE,

WE WOULD HAVE A LOT OF THE OF

BRILLIANT PEOPLE COMING UP WITH

BRILLIANT SOLUTIONS.

NO OTHER -- FIREARM INJURY

PREVENTION IS A SCIENCE IN THE

END.

THERE IS A SCIENCE TO THE POLICY

ANALYSIS AND WRITING AROUND IT.

NO OTHER SCIENCE DEBATE WHERE WE

THINK TWO GUYS, TWO WOMEN

SITTING ON A CORNER OR BAR TALK

TOGETHER.

I THINK WE SHOULD DO THIS.

TOO MUCH MENTAL HEALTH

PROBLEMSES.

WHERE IS THE DATA.

THAT IS NOT THE REASON WE CAME

UP WITH SOLUTIONS FOR CANCER.

THERE WEREN'T TWO GUYS SITTING

AROUND THAT CAME UP WITH SEAT

BELTS THEN THEY TESTED THEM AND

IMPLEMENTED THEM.

BASIC SOCIAL SCIENCE, FOCUS

GROUPS AND ANALYSIS.

WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT

WORKED AND WHAT DIDN'T WORK.

THERE IS NOT A BAN ON FEDERAL

FUNDING.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FUNDING FOR

IT.

IN ADDITION, SOME OF THE OTHER

BASIC THINGS PEOPLE ARE TALKING

ABOUT THAT I THINK ARE

IMPORTANT, CHILD ACCESS

PREVENTION LAWS.

THEY ARE NOT IMPLEMENTING

EVENLY.

WE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW THEY ARE

IMPLEMENTED EVERYWHERE.

SUGGESTIVE TO WORK CERTAINLY.

THIS MORNING IN SEATTLE, A FOUR

YEAR OLD PICKED UP A GUN THAT

WAS LOADED AND SHOT THEIR

PREGNANT MOTHER IN THE FACE.

TWO QUESTIONS WITH THAT.

THIS HAPPENS A LOT.

HUNDRED UNINTENTIONAL FIREARM

DEATH 
BY INADVERTENT.

WHOSE RESPONSIBILITY IS IT IN

OUR SOCIETY TO HAVE THAT FOUR

YEAR OLD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO A

LOADING GUN?

HOW SERIOUS DO WE WANT TO BE

ABOUT IT.

WHY PEOPLE OWN GUNS ACROSS

COMMUNITIES?

WHY DOES THIS YOUNG FAMILY WITH

A FOUR YEAR OLD AND PREGNANT

MOTHER FEEL THEY NEED TO SLEEP

WITH A LOADED GUN UNDER THEIR

BED.

WE'LL START TO BETTER UNDERSTAND

HOW TO ADDRESS THIS BETTER AND

TAKE MORE TIME AND RESOURCES.

>> THANK YOU.

READY FOR AUDIENCE QUESTIONS AND

Q&A.

E WANT TO REMIND OUR FOLKS

ONLINE, QUESTIONS USING TWITTER

AND USE

#POLICYTALKS.

I AM GOING TO TURN IT OVER TO

TWO AMAZING FORD SCHOOL

STUDENTS, SENIOR MARINA AND

STEPHEN OLIPHANT WHO WILL HELP

US.

PROFESSOR AND I.

>> HI, I AM A SENIOR HERE IN THE

FORD SCHOOL.

I DONE A LOT OF WORK BOTH INSIDE

AND OUTSIDE OF A CLASSROOM ON

ANTIGUN VIOLENCE.

TWO SUMMERS AGO I WORKED IN D.C.

WITH GIFFORDS, ANTIGUN VIOLENCE.

>> I AM A SECOND YEAR GRADUATE

STUDENT AND INTERN WITH DR.

CUNNINGHAM'S GROUP.

I THINK DR. METZEL TOUCHED ON

THIS A BIT, ARE THERE MANY

MEANINGFUL MEASURES THAT COULD

SEE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT IN THE

NEAR FUTURE?

SHOULD WE EXPECT OR ADVOCATE

FROM STATE TO STATE AND CITY TO

CITY?

>> I CAN GO FIRST.

>> PLEASE.

>> DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU MEAN BY

NEAR FUTURE.

NEAR FUTURE FOR ME IS NO.

THAT GETS TO THE POINT, WE USE

GUNS FOR POLITICAL PRIORITIES ON

ACROSS THE SPECTRUM.

SO SOMETHING YA KNOW THAT WILL

COME ACROSS AS LIKE I BROUGHT

THIS UP IN THE CLASS EARLIER,

THERE IS A PHRASE I LEARNED

COMMON SENSE X POLICY.

WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT COMMON

SENSE GUN POLICY, THIS ISN'T

GOING TO WORK.

WHAT IS COMMON SENSE TO YOU IS

NOT GOING TO BE COMMON SENSE TO

SOMEONE ELSE.

HOWEVER I WOULD SAY --

YOU CAN

HAVE LEGAL PRIORITY AT THE LOCAL

LEVEL THAT MIGHT NOT MIRROR

SOMETHING DONE IN ANOTHER STATE.

OBVIOUSLY, WE HAVE SEEN TIME AND

AGAIN IT IS HELD UP IN COURT.

THERE IS MERIT TO SOME STATES

AND SOME CITIES HAVING DIFFERING

GUN PRIORITIES.

THAT COMES FROM THE RESEARCH WE

ARE TALKING ABOUT.

IT IS TIME TO DO THE RESEARCH

THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY TALKING,

ATTEMPTING TO STEER IN A CERTAIN

DIRECTION.

THAT 
RESEARCH IS LEADING INTO A

SPECIFIC POLICY DIRECTION OR

TRYING TO LEAN INTO THAT, BUT I

DO THINK THAT THERE IS ROOM TO

TALK ABOUT WHY IS A FAMILY OF

FOUR KEEPING A LOADED HANDGUN

UNDER THE MATTRESS?

WHAT ARE THE PRIORITIES OF THAT

COMMUNITY?

AS POESED TO A COMMUNITY

DIFFERENT, PEOPLE STILL HAVE

LOADED GUNS UNDER THE MATTRESS

EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE IN AN

ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SOCIAL

CONTEXT.

THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE SAID

FOR DIFFERENT LOCALITIES HAVING

DIFFERING LAWS.

I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE

OF THOSE LAWS, MOST RECENT

SUPREME COURT CASE FOCUSSED ON

NEW YORK GUN LAW.

HAS TO DO WITH THE

TRANSPORTATION OF GUNS.

AND I THINK IT WILL BE

INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THE

COURT HAS.

THAT COULD RETRO THIS

CONVERSATION SOME WHAT MOOT A

LITTLE BIT.

AT THE NEAR TERM, I DON'T THINK

THERE IS ANY GUN POLICY MOVE

THAT CAN BE MADE ON THE FEDERAL

LEVEL THAT WOULD GO THROUGH

CONGRESS.

BUMP STOCK BAN WAS SIGNED IN AND

DONE VIA THE TRUMP

ADMINISTRATION AND DEPARTMENT OF

JUSTICE.

OBVIOUSLY THAT IS GOING TO

COURT.

THAT IS ANOTHER MEANS OF

CREATING A POLICY.

DOESN'T INVOLVE CONGRESS.

CONGRESS CAN'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT

NOW.

>> I'LL BE MUCH QUICKER.

>> TAKE YOUR TIME.

>> I THINK THERE ARE THINGS THAT

ARE MORE PALATABLE IN HOW WE GET

TO A PLACE WHERE WE CAN HAVE A

CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT CAN BE

DONE AND AROUND CHILDREN AND

TEENS AND ACCESS LAWS.

I THINK 
WE NEED TO START WITH

THE PLACES THAT COULD HAVE AN

IMMEDIATE AGREEMENT LIKE THAT.

THERE IS MORE AGREEMENT ABOUT

FOLKS AT RISK FOR DOMESTIC

VIOLENCE.

WE KNOW 50 WOMEN A MONTH DIE BY

GUN BY THEIR PARTNER.

EVERY MONTH IN THE UNITED

STATES.

WE CAN PROBABLY DO, THERE ARE

SIMPLER PIECES AS A WAY TO START

INROADS.

AGAIN, WASHINGTON STATE STARTED,

MASSIVE INCREASE IN AMOUNT OF

PEOPLE ASKING FOR THE RESTAINING

ORDERS TO BE PUT IN PLACE WITH

FIREARMS.

THEY HAVE TO BE DONE IN A WAY

THAT IS ENFORCE M.

WHEN THEY GO TO THE EXTRA RISK

THEY ARE PUTTING THEMSELVES AT,

LIKELY TO INCREASE ANGER OF

THEIR PARTNER A FAIR AMOUNT THEY

ARE PROTECTED BY THE LAW AND NOT

HAVE THAT FEAR.

THEN WE NEED TO STUDY THAT AND

WE HAVE FOLKS COMBING THROUGH

THOSE REQUESTS IN A QUALITATIVE

WAY AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT IS

HAPPENING WITH THEM.

I THINK THOSE ARE THE EASIER

LOWER HANGING FRUIT PLACES TO

BEAGAIN.

>> I AM CLEARLY A LIBERAL

CENTERS DEMOCRAT.

IT IS FUNNY I AM ABOUT TO MAKE

AN ARGUMENT FOR STATES RIGHTS.

>> FEDERALISM.

IT IS A WONDER.

>> I WILL SAY I WANT EVERYONE TO

UNDERSTAND THIS QUESTION.

IT IS THE URGENT QUESTION THAT

IS GOING TO FACE US.

THE SUPREME COURT AS DECIDED TO

TAKE UP A SEEMINGLY SMALL CASE

IN NEW YORK.

SOMETHING HUGE HAPPENED A COUPLE

OF WEEKS, SUPREME COURT HASN'T

TAKEN UP A CASE.

EIGHT PEOPLE IN A SMALL GUN CLUB

IN NEW YORK COULDN'T TAKE THEIR

GUNS FROM ONE PLACE TO ANOTHER.

YOU WOULD THINK OH MY GOSH,

WHATEVER, LETS THEM TAKE THEIR

GUNS.

DOES A CITY LIKE NEW YORK HAVE A

RIGHT TO SET GUN POLICY IN THE

CONTEXT OF NEW YORK CITY?

THIS IS A GATEWAY DRUG TUS TO A

MUCH BROADER ISSUE.

DO REGENTS AND STATES HAVE THE

ABILITY TO SET THEIR OWN POLICY?

>> MISSOURI STRICTEST HANDGUN

LAWS.

YOU HAD TO GO TO THE SHERIFF.

SEEMINGLY SMALL BILL THAT SAID

DON'T HAVE TO GO IN PERSON.

LED TO A MUCH BIGGER

CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUE WHICH WAS

DO STATES HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO

THAT?

>> I FEEL LIKE THE ISSUE IS WHAT

IS AT STAKE HERE.

I URGE PEOPLE INTERESTED LOOK AT

THE 2010 D.C. CASE.

LIBERAL JUDGES, CONSERVATIVE

JUDGES AND ONE JUDGE FAR TO THE

RIGHT, SECOND AMENDMENT TRUMPS

EVERYTHING ELSE.

D.C. HAS NO RIGHT TO SET ANY

LIMITATION.

THIS WAS ABOUT AR 15ST IN D.C.

JUDGE YOU MIGHT KNOW HIM,

CAVANAUGH.

WE HAVE PEOPLE ON THE SUPREME

COURT WHO HAVE GONE ON RECORD IN

THIS ISSUE.

THIS QUESTION OF DOES A CITY

LIKE NEW YORK, I AM FROM

TENNESSEE, IF I GO TO NEW YORK,

I CAN'T LOAD UP MY SUITCASE WITH

A BUNCH OF GLOCKS.

I BOUGHT A BUNCH OF STUFF AT

BLOOMING DALES.

I AM GOING TO OFF LOAD MY GUNS

IN GUN MARKETING.

LEADS TO UNINTENDED

CONSEQUENCES.

CASE IN FRONT OF THE SUPREME

COURT HAS POTENT SHL TO SHIFT

GUN POLICY NOT IN THE SOUTH

WHERE IT IS HAPPENING.

IN AREAS LIKE LOS ANGELES AND

NEW YORK THAT HAD THESE ISSUES.

I AM THINKING ABOUT WHAT IT MUST

HAVE BEEN LIKE TOTALLY

ANTIABORTION AREA AND PEOPLE

WERE SAYING ROW VS. WADE THING

IS COMING DOWN THE PIKE AND WE

ARE GOING TO HAVE OUR OWN

REGIONAL WAYS TO STOP IT.

YOU LIMIT THE ABILITIES OF

CITIES AND STATES.

IF YOU ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO

ONE ISSUE, IT IS WHAT HAPPENS IN

THIS NEW YORK CASE.

REALLY STOPPING THE ABILITY OF

LOCALS FOR REALLY MAKING THEIR

OWN POLICIES THAT WORK FOR THEM.

THAT WAS UPLIFTING.

>> NEXT QUESTION HAS TO DO WITH

THE FRAMING OF THIS ISSUE AND

HOW WE TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

IF WE ARE NOT SAYING GUN

CONTROL, WHAT ARE WE SAYING.

ALSO HOW DO WE COMMUNICATE THE

GOOD DATA ON THIS SUBJECT WHEN

SOME DATA HAS BEEN CREATED BY

SOME MORE DUBIOUS RESEARCH FIRMS

AND BASICALLY JUST THE EFFECTIVE

MESSAGING OF THIS ISSUE THAT

LEADS TO IMPROVED PUBLIC SAFETY.

>> I THINK SAFETY IS THE WORD,

SAFETY IMPLIES THAT THE ITEM

EXISTS AND WE ARE GOING TO WORK

WITH ITEM AS IT IS IN SOME FORM

OR ANOTHER TO MAKE IT MORE SAFE.

THAT IS THE FRAME THE LESS

THREATENING FRAME.

THAT IS THE MESSAGING I WOULD

WILDLY INCUR.

WHAT IS THE SECOND PART OF YOUR

QUESTION?

>> I GUESS ABOUT THE DATA.

>> DATA.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO WORK FROM THE

BEST DATA WE HAVE.

THE WAY WE ARE GOING TO GET THE

MOST ACCURATE DATA IS TO HAVE

FUNDED RESEARCH.

IF YOU ARE TOLD YOU HAVE

TERRIBLE CANCER, YOU WANT THE

NIH TO HAVE INVESTIGATED IT.

YOU WANT TO BE CONFIDENT.

WE DON'T HAVE HIGH QUALITY

RESEARCH FOR FIREARMS.

WITH ANYTHING DATA CAN BE

MISCONSTRUED, TESTED.

WE MOVE WHATEVER FIELD OF

RESEARCH FORWARD TO THE BEST

POSSIBLE WAY 
WHICH IS DIFFICULT

ON A GOOD DAY.

WE ARE NOT IN A GOOD DAY FOR

FACTS.

>> UM, YEAH, I WOULD SAY THAT

HOW WE COMMUNICATE ABOUT GUNS,

EVEN WHEN WE DO, IS I THINK

TELLING WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GUNS

AS A POLICY ISSUE.

WE START TALKING ABOUT GUN

POLICY WHEN A SOMETHING TERRIBLE

HAPPENS, SPECIFICALLY A MASS

SHOOTING.

WE SAID THAT AFTER PARKLAND.

THAT IS THE TIME TO HAVE A

CONVERSATION.

TECHNICALLY WE SHOULD BE TALK

ABOUT GUN POLICY AT ALL TIMES.

NEVER A BETTER TIME TO TALK

ABOUT THE REAL ISSUES PREVENTING

GUN VIOLENCE WITHIN THE STRICT

STRUCTURES OF OUR SYSTEM.

IT IS SUCH A GOOD FRAMING, IT IS

ONE NRA USES, WITH REGARDS TO

SCHOOL SHOOTINGS, SCHOOL SHIELD

PROGRAM, EFFORT TO ENCOURAGE

SCHOOLS TO TAKE PART IN DEFENSE

MECHANISMS.

GETTING RID OF WINDOWS IN

SCHOOLS, ALSO ARMING TEACHERS

WHICH IS INCREDIBLY

CONTROVERSIAL.

IDEA OF EDUCATION AND SAFETY

BEING THE FRAME AND TALKING

ABOUT IT.

I WAS GLAD HOW YOU SAID WE DON'T

SAY CAR CONTROL.

WE RECOGNIZE CARS AREN'T GOING

AWAY.

I THINK THERE IS AN IDEA, I

THINK WHAT THIS HAS TO DO WITH

HOW COMMUNITIES DIFFER.

MY PARENTS HATE GUNS.

I HADN'T TOUCHED A GUN UNTIL I

WENT TO A RANGE IN VIRGINIA.

THIS IS A THING PEOPLE DO.

A LOT OF PEOPLE IN JOURNALISM

COME FROM A LONG RUNNING FAMILY

TRADITION OF GUNS AND GUN

OWNERSHIP AND CAN'T IMAGINE WHY

WOULD WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT

GUNS BEING IN HOMES.

YOU ARE COMING FROM RADICALLY

DIFFERENT CONTENTS AND NO CROSS

OVER.

BRUJ COULD BE TO TALK ABOUT

SAFETY AND TALK ABOUT ISSUES

WHEN THEY ARE NOT SPURRED BY

NEWS.

THERE IS AN ARGUMENT, THE DO

SOMETHING POLICY.

TY CLI IT DOESN'T GO THE WAY YOU

HAD HOPE.

REACTING, NOT NECESSARILY TO

EVENTS, BUT ONGOING ISSUES LIKE

THE CRISIS OF INTIMATE VIOLENCE

WE HAVE POINTED OUT AND THE

ONGOING ISSUES THAT CAUSED BY

ACCESS TO GUNS FOR CHILDREN AND

TEENS.

THINK ABOUT SAFETY AND THINK

ABOUT HOW TO COMMUNICATE THAT

ACROSS LINES.

I AM NOT MAKING AN ARGUMENT

AGAINST EXPERTISE.

WE NEED MORE RESEARCH, MORE

FUNDING.

I THINK THE MOMENT WE ARE IN IS

ONE IN WHICH THE DANGER IS NOT

ABOUT THE LACK OF EXPERTISE.

WE HAVE IT.

WE NEED MORE FUNDING.

IT IS ABOUT VACUUMS AND SILOS,

ANY POLICY INTERVENTION NEEDS TO

ALSO, POLICY SCHOLARS AND

CRITICAL SKALS HAVE TO BE

WORKING TOGETHER IN A PARTICULAR

WAY.

EVEN THE BEST POLICY

INTERVENTION RACES THE RISK, I

THINK OF NOT LOOKING AT THE WAYS

IN WHICH WE ARE NOT LIVING IN

THIS MOMENT WHERE I LEARNED THE

APPLE FALLS FROM THE TREE,

THEREFORE I AM GOING TO DO ALL

THESE THINGS.

WE ARE LIVING IN AN INCREDIBLY

ANXIOUS MOMENT.

WE NEED TO COMBINE DIFFERENT

EXPERTISE.

A LOT OF THIS IS GOING TO PLAY

OUT.

ALSO OTHER FORMS OF EXPERTISE,

HISTORY, ALL THESE OTHER FAM

TOS.

NO. 1 THAT IS THE ISSUE.

NO. 2, JUST BACK TO JANE.

I THINK THE NRA HAS BEEN A

DOMINANT VOICE IN THIS

PARTICULAR DOMAIN FAR MORE THAN

ANYBODY REALIZES.

IT IS NOT JUST HOW THEY

RECOGNIZE, THEY HAVE POLITICIANS

WHO ARE ALIGNED IN THEIR

INTEREST AND JUDGES.

IT IS ALSO ABOUT THE WAYS THEY

TAP INTO THESE ANXIETIES.

GUNS BECOME THE ANSWER.

PERFECT EXAMPLE IS NRA AFTER THE

BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTEST.

ALL THESE NRA ADS AND SHOWING

THE HISTORY OF URBAN UNREST AND

NEWARK AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

NRA SPOKES PEOPLE SHOWING THE

SIGN OF THE CLINCHED FIST WHICH

WAS THE SIGN AT THE TIME.

THIS IS OUR MOMENT.

WITHOUT THAT KIND OF CROSS

DISCIPLINARY EXPERTISE, WE ARE

AT RISK OF THOSE POLARIZING

MOMENTS.

>> THERE WASN'T A BALANCING

VOICE ACROSS THE VAST MEDICAL

COMMUNITY OVER THE PAST 20

YEARS.

PHYSICIANS WOULDN'T SAY THE WORD

GUN OR NRA AT ALL.

THAT TIDE IS CHANGING NOW SOME

ARE MORE WILLING TO SPEAK UP

THIS IS MY MOVEMENT.

WITH THAT YOU HAVE A TIDE OF

VOICES WHO CAN BEGIN TO SPEAK

FROM THAT HEALTH PERSPECTIVE, WE

ARE 100% SILENT.

I AGREE THERE ARE MASS

SHOOTINGS, REALLY INTERESTING

LIGHTNING ROD FOR COUNTRY TO

GAIN DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL

CONVENTION.

OUR CALL TO ATTENTION.

TO BE USED AS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR

A DISCUSSION ABOUT A DAILY TOLL

OF VIOLENCE.

THAT STUDENT VOICE BALANCING,

VERY STRONG CONSERVATIVE VOICES

WITH ONE PITCH FOR A LONG TIME.

WE ARE SEEING THE OTHER VOICES.

IT IS GOING TO TAKE A CULTURE

SHIFT TO BEGIN 
TO THINK ABOUT

THIS.

>> SO MUCH OF THE ATTENTION 
IS

ON MASS SHOOTINGS.

WHY HAS HASN'T -- SHOULD WE LOOK AT

THIS ISSUE TO PREVENT GUN

VIOLENCE.

>> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT SUICIDE,

WE TALK AB{UP}ABOUT INTENT.

I LIKE PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT THE

N MECHANISM OF THE INJURY.

TO GET AT PREVENTION STRATEGIES,

WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT BOTH.

WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT SUICIDE

AND SUICIDE PREVENTION.

EVIDENCE OVERWHELMINGLY SHOWS

US, FOR EXAMPLE, ADOLESCENT IS

IMPULSIVE AND HAS ACCESS TO A

FIREARM THEY CAN COMPLETE THAT

INTENT.

THEY LIKELY WILL NOT GO ON TO

SUBSTITUTE AND FIND ANOTHER

MEANS.

THAT HAS BEEN SHOWN OTHER AND

OVER AGAIN.

WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT SUICIDE.

YES BETTER ACCESS TO MENTAL

HEALTH TREATMENT ALSO WHY WE

HAVE INCREASED DEPRESSION AND

HOPELESSNESS.

WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT GUNS AND

IMMEDIATE LETHAL ACCESS TO THAT

MECHANISM TO THAT INJURY.

>> HOW MUCH MORE TIME DO WE

HAVE?

THIS IS MY ENTIRE BOOK IS ABOUT

THIS.

I HAVE A BOOK COMING OUT IN

MARCH.

IT IS NOT JUST INTEND IT IS

ACCESS.

I GOT DRUNK, MY WIFE IS HAVING

AN AFFAIR AND FIRED FROM MY JOB,

AND THERE IS A GUN HERE H. IF

YOU SHOOT YOURSELF FATAL IN 96%.

IS THERE A GUN AROUND?

IT IS NOT LINKED TO MENTAL

HEALTH.

WHEN YOU LOOK ACROSS SWATH OF

GUN SUICIDE, LARGELY WHITE MEN

LINKED TO DEMOGRAPHIC TRENDS AND

GUN OWNERSHIP.

IT IS A QUESTION OF ACCESS.

WHY IS THE GUN THERE IN THE

FIRST PLACE.

TIES INTO OTHER QUESTIONS WE

HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

YOU CAN'T JUST SEE GUN SUICIDE

OR FIREARM RELATED MORBIDITY AND

MORTALITY TREND IN A VACUUM.

THE MINUTE WE LINK IT DOWN AND

THIS ONE MOMENT, THIS PARTICULAR

ANECDOTE, YOU ARE LOSING, I

THINK THE BIGGER QUESTION.

I HAVE A PIECE COMING OUT PUBLIC

OPEN ACCESS NATURE THING.

I ARGUED RESEARCH I LOVE TO SEE

IS THERE A PUBLIC HEALTH BENEFIT

TO OWNING A GUN?

IS THERE A PLEASURE?

I DON'T ASCRIBE TO TO THAT

PERSONALLY.

IF ONE GUY ON THE SUBWAY HAS A

GUN, EVERYBODY HAS A GUN.

WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS

SUBLIME ABOUT GUN OWNERSHIP?

WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO HAVE

THE FRUSTRATING PUSH AND PULL.

PUBLIC HEALTH ONE HAND AND GUN

OWNERSHIP ON THE OTHER HAND.

WE NEVER SEEM TO GO ANYWHERE.

>> WHEN WE ARE TALKING, QUESTION

OF SUICIDE IS LIKE YOU SAID

QUESTION OF ACCESS AND

MECHANISMS.

I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING WITH

RISING SUICIDE RATE, ABILITY TO

COMPLETE THE ACT IN A SENSE.

THAT HAPPENS YOU KNOW, I HAVE

LOST FRIENDS TO SUICIDE BY GUN.

THAT IS A CONVERSATION THAT

PLAYS INTO IT.

ISSUE OF GENOMES NEEDS TO BE

PART OF A LARGER CONVERSATION.

GUNS BECOME A TEST FOR POLITICAL

PRIORITI

PRIORITII

PRIORITIES.

WE CAN'T REMOVE GUNS.

I TALK TO A LOT OF GUN OWNERS

AND HOW THEY TALK ABOUT GUNS IS

SO DIFFERENT FROM HOW THE FOLKS

I TALK TO AT EVERYTOWN OR MANS

DEMAND TALK ABOUT GUNS.

THEY HAVE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT

--

YOU WERE ABLE TO COMPLETE THE

ACT BECAUSE YOU HAVE ACCESS TO

THAT.

YOU PROBABLY OWNED THE GUN FOR

ENTIRELY SEPARATE REASONS

BEFOREHAND.

THIS WAS NOT NECESSARILY A PART

OF THE PLAN WHEN YOU GOT THIS

GUN.

WHY DID YOU GET THE GUN IN THE

FIRST PLACE?

WHAT CONTEXT DID YOU HAVE?

IT IS AN INTERESTING ISSUE.

IT IS GONE OWNERS VERSES PUBLIC

HEALTH.

WE HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO BRIDGE

AND HAVE CONVERSATIONS BY WHICH

MECHANISMS IN WHICH PEOPLE ARE

ENDING THEIR LIVES.

THEN WE CAN START GETTING INTO

WHAT THAT GUN MEANS AND WHAT GUN

USAGE MEANS OVERALL.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I AM SO SORRY, BAD NEWS WE ARE

OUT OF TIME FOR TODAY.

GOOD NEWS, WE HAVE REFRESHMENTS

IN OUR GREAT HALL.

WE INVITE YOU COME AND ENJOY US.

EVERYONE FROM THE AUDIENCE COMES

DOWN HERE AND PANELEST CAN NEVER

GET DOWN TO THE RECEPTION.

WE CAN CONTINUE CONVERSATIONS,

FOLLOW THESE WONDERFUL PEOPLE ON

TWITTER, AND PLEASE JOIN ME IN

THANKING THEM FOR A PROVOCATIVE

AND WONDERFUL CONVERSATION.