Hands-on, practical experiences

Hi everyone. Good evening.
I'm Luke Schaefer.

I'm a faculty member
at the Ford School and

the associate dean for research
and policy engagement.

At the Ford School, we take

an applied approach
to learning and

research and includes
engagement with policymakers,

organizations, and communities
outside the university,

actively working
on public policy.

We do this in the
classroom and beyond.

Our students engage in direct

hands-on learning
experiences that

a range of places such as

Mayor Mike Dugan's office
in the city of Detroit,

with state agencies in Lansing,

the White House and
the State Department.

And abroad. We believe
in learning and

doing by melding
classroom training

with on the ground practice.

Our students come out
ready to effect change and

exceptional ways with
this blend the training.

They impact the
world directly with

their experiences while
they're students.

So in this session, we're
going to learn about

a range of opportunities
for students to

engage in real-world
policy issues in

the classroom and outside of

the classroom through research
activities and workshops.

So I'm really pleased to be
here with my colleagues and

friends to talk about

the great things that are
going on at the Ford School.

We've got Professor
John to chary.

He's a director of the
wiser Diplomacy Center

in International Policy Center.

We have Professor shall
beat the part this Iraqi.

She's the director
of the Science,

Technology and Public
Policy Program.

And the three of us just
recently got the share the stage

for what I think might have been

the best policy talk and
Ford School history.

And we've got a great addition to

our merry band in our
friend and colleague,

Professor Liz Gerber,
who's director of

the program for practical
policy engagement.

And we've got a great team from

student and academic services

here on hand to answer

your questions about
application process.

So I'm going to turn it over
to my colleagues and we're

gonna get to hear about
some of the things going

on at their center and some
of their advice to you is,

do you think about
how you might want

to engage at the Ford School?

I'm going to invite you to put

your questions in the chat.

And we're gonna
try to get through

as much as we possibly can.

John, let me turn it over
to you and just say,

Can you tell us a little bit
about different types of

experiences with students at

the weither center
and through classes.

And some of the great ways that

students might get involved
at the Ford School.

Absolutely, Luke. First of all,

it's very nice to meet you all.

If only virtually
in this session.

I want to say that we think at

the wiser Diplomacy Center

and the International
Policy Center about

practical learning is having

three concentric circles inside
the classroom, on campus.

And of course, beyond.

Inside of the classroom,

we try to emphasize
practical learning

through policy, round tables,

through role play exercises,

through assignments to that,

push students to develop

the skills that they'll
need in the workplace.

For example, in a
class I'm teaching,

we have students
write a memorandum on

what decision to
take with regard to

what's happening in Hong
Kong or in Belarus,

where we ask them to
write talking points for.

What if you were called upon to,

to give your boss points to
deliver at a meeting on on

transatlantic relations or
on the situation that's

unfolding in Nigeria
or in Venezuela,

outside of the classroom,

but still on campus
in the Ford School.

We have a lot of
activities that involve

practical training in the form

of workshops and simulations.

So we've got a series of

workshops through the
Diplomacy Center,

just to give you a flavor of

what those workshops are like.

They include a workshop
that we just completed

on assessing different
sources of information.

If you were operating in

Russia in the case
of this workshop,

you assess what
information is credible.

How would you triangulate what
sources, when you consult?

Which sources might you avoid?

And taught by Jill Dougherty,

a former Bureau Chief for CNN.

Coming up soon in
the same series,

we have a workshop on

advancing human rights and
democracy in Eastern Europe.

And so we'll have
students coached by

an expert who works for the
Open Society Foundation in

Brussels on how to create
and devise a strategy for

advocacy and tough places

like in Kiev or in
Minsk or elsewhere.

How would you build a set of
allies for policy change?

How would you articulate
your position?

How would you recruit assistance
from Brussels and so on.

We also have simulations where

students take on the roles of,

of actors that are engaged in

diplomacy in the real
world all around us.

We just had one with
the Army War College

on the South China
Sea, for example.

Coming up next month we
have simulation on nato.

And in October we had
one that focused on,

on, on transatlantic
relations and,

and challenges in Ukraine.

We also have many other
activities of that kind.

We've had one on Venezuela,

we've had one on South Sudan,

will have one coming up in

the not-too-distant
future on migration.

And so these are all
opportunities for students to

not only study and read about
international policies,

but to put themselves in
the shoes of those who were

actually involved in
the conversation.

And hopefully thereby they get

comfortable and confident and

competent in carrying out
those responsibilities.

And then thirdly, off-campus,

the outer concentric circle.

We've got a bunch of programs
that are designed to

empower students to create,

to either take advantage of

opportunities that we've
helped to establish

or to choose their
own adventure by

getting funding for internships,

extern ships, and research
projects that they've devised.

To give you an example of a

few of the categories we have.

We have so-called extended
research projects,

like a pair of students
right now working on

a plan for Sports
Diplomacy strategy

for the US State Department.

We've got short-term
things we call

student initiated
projects or sips.

That last a week or two weeks,

often during a winter
break or spring break

or right after the
spring semester.

And we had a group go down to

Guatemala to work with a
human rights group there,

for example, helping to
develop an advocate,

an advocacy strategy
for accountability.

In the aftermath of that
country's civil war.

We had a student go to
Ottawa and to talk about

counterinsurgency strategy
at a conference in

another finland to talk
about climate change.

We also have teams of

students who work
in partnership with

the State Department is part of

the diplomacy lab project where

State Department
officials who were

serving in the field
with busy day jobs,

pharma or research questions
to university partners.

Right now we've got five
Ford school teams working on

projects with state and
will have at least three

or four more in the winter term.

These are all examples of
the different ways in which

we try to empower students too.

And to give them
funding in many cases,

to develop practical skills

while they're in the MPP program.

And we hope of course,

that it'll also foster
connections that help

them get jobs and the
space from the graduate.

So I'll stop there,
Luke, and look forward

to hearing more from
B to a and from

this shared agenda before I
turn it over to beat that,

let me just confirm that

that is a real
bookcase behind you.

It's not a virtual
background. To real case.

If I were showing a different
a different slice of it,

I'd be able to pick Schumpeter's
book off the shelf,

but no one glucose over.

And in John I wonder One of
the things I really love are

some of the professors
of practice

that you have affiliated
with the center.

I wonder if you could just
talk about one or two of

those and what they
bring. Oh, yeah.

Thank you for
mentioning that Luke,

we have at the core of
our diplomacy Center,

we have professors of practice.

We've got a few
permanent professors

of practice who are
part of our faculty,

Ambassador millivots key
and Ambassador Susan page.

We also have visitors right
now we have Dr. Obama,

who was a veteran of USA
ID teaching a course

on women rights and labor.

Last year we had a course
by by Richard Boucher,

a former Assistant Secretary

of State on the mechanisms of,

of cultivating influence in

foreign policy and in the
not-too-distant future.

We'll have Ambassador Dan shields

come and teach a class on,

on diplomacy and Asia.

We also have a program for

shorter term visiting diplomats.

People who might not
have time to come spend

a semester or longer
at the Ford School,

but we get them here
for a week or two.

They give some seminars,

they run workshops
and simulations.

And maybe most importantly

for those of you who are going to

be interested in developing
careers in this space,

lots of office hours so that you

can develop
relationships with them.

Ask customized questions
for your interests,

and, and develop connections.

They will help throughout

your Ford School
Program and beyond.

So cans to engaged
at a variety of

levels with practical hands-on

question to and talking about,

talking with people who have

made some of those
decisions on their own.

She'll tell us a little
bit about science,

technology, and public policy.

Sure. Before I do that though,

I have to have a can't resist.

But say that in some ways
the fact that John does

not have his books prominently

displayed around his head
in some ways tells you

all you need to know about

the Ford School's faculty
and how approachable we are.

I liked they certainly John is,

so I think that says
something. So yes.

As Luke said, I direct
the science, technology,

and public policy
program and I think that

when I started that program
many years ago now,

I often had to have
conversations with

MPP students and, you know,

sort of others and policy
schools wondering what it was

that science and
technology policy

had to do with public policy.

But of course, on a day
when we were waiting

with bated breath to hear with

the FDA Advisory Committee,

had to say about vaccines.

And I think probably
the most closely

watch FDA Advisory
Committee meeting ever.

And yesterday when many
attorneys general across

the country filed a lawsuit

against Facebook and on
their antitrust practices,

I think questions about what,

how science and technology

are central to public policy and

central to our lives is not

a question we need
to ask anymore.

Instead, we're at a moment

where students are
coming to us and

wondering how can I

understand science and
technology policy better?

I'm coming without a background

in the sciences or engineering,

but I am increasingly interested

in how thinking about
vaccine uptake,

for example, or facial
recognition technology.

Or I'm hearing about algorithms

and the ways in which they

might help government services,

but also in some ways,

potentially perpetuate
racial and gender biases.

And essentially at the
in the SQP program,

the science, technology,
and public policy program.

Our goal is to provide
students with the tools

to understand and evaluate

emerging science and technology.

To bring in explicitly
questions of public interest

and to develop better
public policies

that can actually contribute
to the public good.

And we do that in
a number of ways.

So we have a graduate
certificate program,

and it has been around
now for 14 years.

We have a number of
graduates who have gone

on to careers on the Hill.

In company is working for

civil society groups all in

a variety of different areas

of science and technology policy.

And here I'm also including,

for example,
environmental policies.

So whatever our
graduates, for example,

works on the National
Climate Assessment,

is the deputy director for

the National Climate Assessment.

So it really spans
that broad range.

And in those classes,

just as John was,
was talking about,

we endeavor to provide

students with
opportunities to really

roleplay what it's like
to be involved in some of

these increasingly intense
conversations about,

you know, the politics of
science and technology,

or how should Emerging
technologies like as I mentioned,

visual recognition be regulated,

should it be regulated?

And if so, how do we maximize

the benefits of some
of these technologies

while minimizing the risks?

And so like I'm

teaching another version
of the course that,

that John teaches right now.

And we do a roundtable
project where we have,

for example, two
roundtable projects.

One is about a
pipeline and Ecuador,

another is about the Dakota
Access Pipeline in the US.

And students spend

the semester immersing
themselves taking

on the identity of
a stakeholder in

the debate either for or
against the pipeline.

They write a series
of policy memos.

They, the projects culminate with

a roundtable debate among

members of their group
and with questions,

extemporaneous questions

from the audience
that they have to

learn how to answer
on the, on the cuff.

And those are opportunities

to not only develop
policy writing skills,

but also oral
presentation skills.

We also teach courses on

Science and Technology
Policy that

teach you how to analyze,

how to understand
the role that values

play in science and
technology development,

implementation and governance
and how to rethink policy.

As I, as I mentioned earlier

with with public
interests questions

at the core as opposed to,

for example, issues around
NCI or scientific curiosity.

The policy question is
really, for example,

how do we think about
equity and justice concerns

in the development of

covert diagnostic
testing, for example.

So these are the kinds

of questions that we talk
about in our classes.

And then students have
the opportunities in

the certificate
program in particular,

to take electives from across

the University
because we are allied

with a number of
different units and

faculty across the
university and students.

I had the opportunity
to take courses in

it and and dabble

in a variety of areas
or to specialize in

particular areas of

science and technology
policy if they so wish.

In the last couple of years,

we just started something called

the Technology
Assessment Project.

And they're, what our idea
is essentially is to bring,

our kind of guiding principle

is that we think
that the history of

technology has a
lot to guide us in

the development and governance
of emerging technologies.

So the idea is that
it seems like when

we have an emerging
technology, we say,

we throw up our hands and we
say, well, we don't know,

you know, technology moves

and we don't know
how to govern it.

And we last year worked
on our first technology.

We published our report in
August about the use of

facial recognition technology
in K through 12 schools.

And at the time that
we were doing it,

people thought, oh,
that's kind of crazy.

You know, is that
really happening?

And then sort of in
February there was

some news that was
happening in New York.

There was more and more news that

there was happening
across the country.

And of course, in the
last four to five months,

the use of various,

not just facial
recognition technologies,

but other kinds of virtuals.

Learning surveillance
technologies, what's

called bio-metric
technologies have exploded.

In the US and all over the place.

And so we've had a lot of
attention to our report,

a lot of media attention as
well as policy attention.

And a number of students
worked on that project.

And one of the students
in that project gave

a presentation at the National

Science Policy Network meeting.

And so we have and we're
now doing another,

another technology assessment
project this year focused

on both coded contact
tracing and vaccines.

Students also have
the opportunity to

work on international projects.

So my own research
has been looking

at code that diagnostic testing.

And I've actually been
able to take advantage of

the international
dimensions of the,

the Ford School community.

And I have a student who is
currently in South Korea,

but helping with a project

by doing interviews
and South Korea.

And it's been a
wonderful, you know,

who knew how this was going
to work out in the pandemic.

And it turns out it
works pretty well,

so it's very exciting.

And the final thing
I just want to

mention to follow up on

what John was saying in

terms of off-campus
opportunities.

The SEVP program offers,

it's a Graduate Certificate.

Students with career
development grants

and students use those
in a variety of ways.

They might decide to go and

pursue internships
and fellowships.

In DC. Also a lot of
short-term opportunities.

There are things in Washington DC

like science outside
the lab where

you can live with

hangout with other
graduate students

from around the
country with similar

interests for a couple of weeks

and meet top policymakers and

interest group
representatives working

on thinking about science
and technology policy.

There are a number
of other conferences

that students also attend.

And we also offer students,
again, live theater.

Though, wiser Diplomacy Center,

with students
opportunities to write

and publish short pieces as well.

So earlier this summer we had,

as students talk about Wright,
one of our first cause,

what we call Colvin briefs,

which was what are the
lessons to be learned about

scientific uncertainty
and science communication

from the climate change sphere.

How can that help us think
about how to deal with

the emerging issues around
the science of covered 19.

So we offer a range
of different kinds of

research and engaged
opportunities for students.

And before I go to lives,

I'll just say that
I believe that it

also does actual kitchen.

John, that's his actual bookcase.

And I was just
wondering too as I was

just reading your report

on facial recognition and

bio-metric technologies
in schools.

And notice that the
lead author was

a student wondering if

you could just really
quickly say like,

how did that, how
did that happen?

How does a student go from
sort of coming to campus and

meeting you in a
class to becoming

a coauthor on a report that

gets quite a bit of attention.

Yeah. Students on

these projects are
simply extraordinary.

And the, we, a couple of
things happened, I suppose.

We offered positions for
research assistance.

And so the the lead
author on that report

is actually an undergrad
Ford School undergrad.

And she was a senior last year,

so I guess she is no
longer an undergrad.

She's gainfully employed.
Thank you very much.

In healthcare consulting in fact,

and and and apparently it
partially as a result of

this report considering
journalism careers.

And, and the second
author is an MPP student.

And the second author,
Hannah Rosenfeld,

had taken a class with
me and I sort of had

a sense that she was
interested in these issues.

And so when an opportunity
arose, I asked her,

but but these and
students took, you know,

research assistant
positions every,

every September we offer

these musicians and students
can join at that time.

Or if students drop
out of the project,

there might be
other opportunities

later on it to join
these projects.

And then, you know,

they really take the lead.

I mean, for much of that report,

I let them take the lead.

I sort of directed it and it was

the first time really
doing something like that.

And and it and it
took it was I think,

early summer, of course,

than the pandemic
hit and we weren't

entirely sure what was
gonna happen and I

realized we're
pushing that boulder

up the hill tubes yes.

With some direction for
me but they were really

doing the heavy
lifting and they were

willing to put in the hours,

not knowing what that was,
what was so impressive,

not knowing at the time
that the report would

have the media
attention that it did.

And I think not only did
an extraordinary job,

but I think they got
a lot of attention.

They were totally giddy by

how at the epi attention
that it was receiving and

the conversations we were
having with the ACLU

and others who sought
civil society groups

and with policy makers.

It was, you know,

they, because that was the
first year of the project,

so we weren't entirely
sure Now of course,

we'll have to live up to that.

But the students are incredibly

enthusiastic and they
learn from one another.

And they work really hard and

they're super smart
and there I think

and enjoy and are

engaged with heavily
engaged with one another,

which is wonderful to see.

And you just find yourself
kind of training them but,

but also letting
their imaginations

go as they do this kind of work.

So, yeah, you might get to know

a faculty member through
a class and then

a relationship builds from

there or research assistantship.

But it sounds like a key
is really sort of going

for it and looking for

those opportunities
and pursuing them.

So I know the program and

practical policy engagement
is another exciting,

relatively new feature
of the Ford School.

And I'm going to turn
it over to Liz Gerber.

She'll tell us a little
bit about three.

Thanks, Luke. Yes. Hi, everybody.

Excuse my voice.

I have some lingering allergies.

In the season. It's always
a little nerve-wracking

when any kind of health
things come up, but I'm good.

I just have a little
bit of allergies today.

So welcome and welcome to this
virtual Ford School event.

I hope that you

from the conversations

that we're going to
have this evening

and get a little bit of a
flavor for the kinds of

practical engagement
opportunities we have.

But honestly, we're only

really just touching the surface.

There's so much going on,

which for me is just.

Completely like the
best thing ever.

I came to the Ford
School in 2001,

kind of to be the policy
engagement person.

And, you know,

that's kind of crazy
because that's really,

it's so much in our DNA now.

And a lot of what we do

at the program and practical
policy engagement,

or we don't really
like to call it,

but we're sort of stuck
with the name P3 ie.

A lot of what we do at P3,

E has some overlap,

but also some
distinctive features

relative to what John and
shall be to have talked about.

And I think you'd find
that at the Ford School

that there all these touch
points, commonalities,

but also sort of
unique opportunities

depending on what your own
particular interests are.

So it's a, it's a really
fantastic set of opportunities.

So a little bit about P3 E,

We were founded about
four years ago.

And the mandate that the
mission of the program is

to support and promote
practical learning,

practical research
and policy impact.

And all of those things
that sort of underlying

current and all of them is
connecting people to real.

Connecting our students
and our faculty and

our research staff to real
people and organizations

outside of the Ford
School to engage in

mutually beneficial course
Project's research projects,

service projects.

Other ways that our
students can engage

directly with organizations
outside of the university.

Working on timely important,

high priority policy problems.

And give the students
an opportunity to

be real partners
in those problems.

And in return, give those
organizations the benefit of

our brilliant students
and the insights

and the perspectives and

the work that they're able to do.

It's a really cool opportunity,

set of opportunities
that we offer.

Some of them are within classes.

So there's a course that's
taught every fall and

sometimes in the
winter as well called

Strategic Public
Policy consulting.

And P3 E partners with

that course and brings
in mentors who are

distinguished policy
professionals to

help guide the
students through some

of the tricky parts of

these partnerships with
outside organizations.

We also offer projects that

either myself or other staff with

P3 scope, with
real-world partners.

Sometimes they're brought
to us by students.

Sometimes they come
through connections that

either myself or other faculty

or staff have at the Ford School.

And so students than work
on semester-long projects,

sung for credit, Sung her pay.

Just last night.

We had a terrific showcase
of the six team projects

that were underway through
P3 E This last semester.

They were fantastic.

The clients,

in some cases we refer to
them as clients in summary,

refer to them as
community partners.

Kind of depending
on the project and

the relationship between

the students and
the organizations.

But just to give you some
flavor for the kinds of

projects that our students
showcase last night.

One of them was with

a community organization into

Trey called peace and
justice into trade,

where they were looking
at recommendations for

trauma informed training for

that Detroit Police Department.

All the way to a project
with the Port of Monroe,

Michigan, which is a
maritime port on Lake Erie.

And the students were helping
them do policy analysis

around beneficial uses for a
product called bottom ash,

which is produced in the
coal combustion process.

In the students that
we're working on,

that we're mostly
environmental policy students

trying to help both
the port and d T0,

the power plant owner,

identify

beneficial uses that were
environmentally friendly.

Certainly much more so than
dumping junk in a landfill,

which is what they
were doing previously.

And so providing the
research background

so that both the port
and GTE could make

more informed
decisions and identify

more beneficial opportunities
for that product.

We also had students working
it with The Oakland County,

Michigan Association
of school boards,

where they were looking at

punishment policies
within schools

and trying to identify the extent

of two which restorative
justice themes were showing up,

both in the school codes

and the practices
of those schools.

That just gives you
a little flavor.

The, again, the
common characteristic

of all these opportunities is

real-world partners
and working on

serious policy issues that

are a top priority for
the organizations.

These are not just term papers

that students go off and do.

And some client gives them
a little bit of advice,

then that's the end of it.

But a lot of the student
projects are either taken

on by the internal staff

of the organizations
that we're working with.

Or like some of the examples
that John and should be

mentioned there brought
directly to policymakers,

either through our clients or

through folks at the Ford School.

So wonderful opportunities to get

involved in projects
either for credit or for

pay through the program
prep program and

practical policy in Engagement

to work on real world problems.

Some of the other
things we do at P3,

we also have a lot of events.

There are so many events
at the Ford School.

You can't even go to a
small fraction of them,

which is a great thing.

It's really nice to have

so much to do and not
enough time to do it.

And so this last semester,

I'll just give you a little
flavor of some of the kinds

of events that we
sponsored at P3.

We sponsored, cosponsored
an event with

the Michigan Municipal
League about

women in chief executive
offices in local government.

It turns out that only 15% of

these positions
are held by women.

While women have a majority of

the population of
adults in the state.

So we heard from a panel of

really outstanding
local government,

chief administrative or
chief executive officers

from around the state.

We held an effective
advocacy workshop where we

had senior staff from the
League of Conservation Voters

talking about some
steps towards becoming

an effective advocate
and providing

really good examples with some
hand, hands-on activities.

I should say all of our
events tend to have

hands-on activities to
we didn't really do

not like just talking heads

on a stage or on a zoom screen,

but really like to get
our students involved.

Which reminds me
that I gotta stop

talking soon because
I'm going long.

We've had a number
of other events,

also, Voter
Registration training.

Some work with colleagues
from poverty solutions,

which Luke runs about

working with the media and
how to be more effective in

getting your story told and

getting your op-eds
out there or other

policy materials
that you want to get

out into the media and
into the policy world.

If you're interested
in learning more

about the program and
practical policy engagement,

i'll put the link in the chat.

It's practical policy
dot umich.edu.

And I'm happy to talk
to any of you if you

have questions on the People
page on that website,

you can click on my face and it

will take you to my
office hours signup.

So please do.

I would love to meet as
many of you as possible and

answer any further questions you

might have. That's great.

And I can confirm that that

Gerber's real blue background.

So my bedroom living lives

before I turn things back,

let me just, when I think about

all the great projects, P3, E,

I think about both
sort of learning

the process of policy analysis,

but also the process
of partnership.

And so much of public policy

is about sort of building trust

than trying to figure
out what makes

people tick. For sure.

And I should say,

we try to be very
deliberate about that.

We have lots of materials

that we provide to students
who are, it's not,

it's both working with

an outside partner or a client
or a community partner,

but also working in teams.

We do a lot of teamwork at

the Ford School
because of course,

you do a lot of
teamwork in the world.

And it's hard and
it's frustrating.

And a lot of people pull

their hair out when
they're told they have to.

Those of us who
have hair. Oh, wow.

When they're told they've
gotta do group projects.

But then they come
back and say, oh,

thank you, that was so important.

And so a lot of what
we do is help provide

both experience but
also tools so that

students can be successful
in their teamwork as

well as in their partnerships
with outside organizations.

John, I think you
posted a few events of

note in the last few years

to maybe give people a sense of,

you know, one or two people
have come through and

both PR speaking and
some other environments.

I'm getting to know folks for

where we had the launch
of our diplomacy Center.

Just last fall.

And we were able to have a
great lineup of speakers.

We had Condoleezza Rice,

We had Hillary Clinton,

Samantha Power, Susan Rice,

former National Security
Adviser, Steve Hadley,

Deputy Secretary of State steep

B and, and lots of others.

So we had, we had

a high profile speaker
series that's nice.

But really for students,

the better part of it is that we

always ask speakers who visit

us to set aside some time
to have a much smaller,

more intimate meeting with

a group of students
in a seminar room.

So that it's not just
a matter of sitting in

a large auditorium and
listening to a notable speaker.

But having the chance
to put up your hand,

ask a question directly

to to the visiting
expert and be able to,

to learn more about the
issues that concern you.

And so students really enjoyed
asking Samantha Power,

How do you make the change from

being a well-known
sort of critic of

government and human
rights advocate to

one whose outbreak running
side of that framework.

People really enjoyed
asking Condoleezza Rice,

what's it like being someone who,

who was an
African-American woman who

enters into a national
security space.

It's dominated by white men.

How do you navigate that space?

And I could go on with
lots of examples,

but that's what we try to do.

We try to take advantage of

our small community
size inside of

a great large university
to make this not

just a matter of line up that
we can post on our website,

but people who you
get to talk to in

small group settings so
that you can derive some,

some insights from their visits.

And we haven't really
talked about sort

of work inside the classroom.

And I know it should be the

Yukichi qualitative
methods class.

And I generally don't think of

qualitative methods class or

the weights do have sort of
practical outside experience.

But I hear a lot about

students who have managed to
engage in meaningful ways.

Yeah. I, I love, I,

I'm lucky in that I get to teach

a lot of classes that I enjoy it.

But I have a
particularly soft spot

in my heart for the
qualitative methods.

And what I always tell
students is that it,

the purpose is both to teach

students how to evaluate
good qualitative methods,

but also how to do

good qualitative research and

how to design a
qualitative study,

conduct that research,
envision a big,

big project and an
elective course.

And so by qualitative methods,

I guess I should
step back and say

that includes things
like interviews,

what's called ethno,
ethnographic observation,

community-based
participatory research,

historical and document analysis.

And increasingly students are

finding that they're
needing those skills,

that they are finding out

that the jobs that
they're applying for talk

about a need for poor
qualitative methods, experi,

experience and students
come into my class

with a particular area
of policy interest,

as I'm sure all of you have,

whether that's education policy,

or health care or energy
and the environment.

And so we start on
the first day of

class by I just asked them,

what's your area of interest?

And we start from
there and ask them,

or do you have research sites?

Do you have like embryonic
research questions?

And we go through the course of

the semester to develop
those research questions,

to develop potential
research sites,

to envision a pilot project,

to actually go and do

pilot research and
then come back and

envision what a big project

might look like if you were to

ask a big research question.

And along the way
you get exposed to

both scholarly and
policy literature

on that topic as well.

And students do it credible,
engaged, creative work.

So for example, we had,

I had a student many years
ago who was interested in

understanding what are the kinds

of policies that are necessary,

especially for ethnic businesses

and community in the
Detroit community.

And so she spoke to

Bangladeshi store owners
in him traumatic to

try to understand
what are the kinds of

policies that are really going to

foster economic development
in this particular community.

Last year, for example,

have a student
who's interested in

energy and environment
and housing.

And he did ethnographic work,

looking a couple of different
apartment buildings,

trying to understand
what motivates an

individual or family is

decisions about their
energy choices,

whether it's where
to step thermostat,

whether to turn on

the air conditioner
or turn on the heat.

As a way of trying to
understand what are the kinds

of incentives for families,

but also for landlords.

In terms of creating more
energy efficient housing.

A few years ago we had

another student who
actually is now,

who now works at the Ford School.

Interestingly, that
he was interested in

the experiences that trans people

have when it comes
to health care.

And so he did an interview
study around just

focused on both
healthcare practitioners

who serve those communities,

but also me interviewed,

I think 15 different.

And that was on the very high-end

trans people to see what are

the kinds of challenges
that they experience.

So it's an opportunity.

I sometimes, for me,

it's sometimes
challenging because it's

20 to 25 individual
research projects,

but it's also
exhilarating because

students are really getting
the opportunity to,

to delve into an area that they

are dedicated to their
learning the lay of the land.

They're learning the challenges.

And they're often
then going off into

the world to actually
work in these areas.

And they then have a more on

the ground understanding of what

people that they want to
serve going forward, right?

We talk about public
service and that's

so central to our mission
at the Ford School.

The what are, what are

the perspectives
of the people that

they want to serve and
how can they integrate?

Sustained it, robust
analysis alongside those,

those communities as they go off

and try to influence
public policy.

And I, we have a
couple of questions

from the audience and

I'm just going to run through
them and open them up.

So Kathy asks, Is there

an application process for
research assistant chips?

How do those come about?

That a game to How
does that work with,

with your shop? I'll
start with that.

So one of the things that

I've learned over doing
this for awhile is

often there are projects
that would be wonderful for,

say, class projects are
semester-long projects,

but they don't fit the timeline
of a regular semester.

So one of the things that
I try to do at we try

to do in the P3 E program is to

make available opportunities
for students to work on

real-world projects
with a community

or a client organization
and a faculty member.

And they come up all
throughout the semester.

And so whenever they do,

we just email the entire
Ford school's student body.

So there often available to

both masters students as

well as undergraduates
as well as PhD students.

So any of our Ford School
students are eligible.

And we invite applications
and we review them.

Enough staff committee.

And we bring people on sort of

on a rolling basis
throughout the year,

whenever these
projects come about.

So that's sort of a sort of

a real time just-in-time
research opportunity.

So I just encourage our students

to keep their eyes out for
the email I try to send too,

because sometimes
these things get

slipped by in one's inbox.

But those are again,

just sort of as they come up
in sort of an ad hoc way,

but they can be really

interesting and
exciting opportunities.

So a research assistantship might

be posted as an official job.

I think some are in that
way and you can watch

those applications and
find those through

student services and
apply for those directly.

Opportunities would
come up by email,

such as you were just describing
sort of on the fly in

the in the moment

and just watching for those
and responding to them.

But I think going back to
what we talked about earlier,

if you if there's
a faculty member

you really want to work with,

you should ask them

even if you don't see
something I'm same.

Yeah. Heads nodding in
agreement on that one.

Alright. Thinking that I that we

have I think covered

that I've got a
question from Lauren,

he says and I'm not sure
I'll be interested.

I have some thoughts. She says,

as someone who has

five plus years of corporate
experience under their belt,

is there an advantage to go into

the NPP versus the NBA program?

What's the biggest
difference between the two?

I maybe I'll start on
Wayne and on that where

the I'll mentioned
the MPA program

as I think relatively new and
really, really fast, right?

And so if you're moving through,

working and want to sort
of move through fast

than the MPA might
make more thans.

And the NPP is the
two-year program with

the internship between
and we'll give you

just a little bit more time

to be at the Ford
School and be Engage.

Anybody else want to weigh in

on this particular question?

I'm happy to weigh in Luke.

So in the, in the
international side we get,

of course, a variety of

students with
different backgrounds.

Some people already
have a fair amount of

experience in
international policy.

And they want to come to
get a master's degree

because they want to tackle

one specific area of
substantive knowledge

or skill set to propel them
forward in an existing path.

And an MPA makes sense for
them in financial terms,

in terms of the
opportunity cost for

the career there embarked
on and other factors.

But more off. And I'd say
we have students come who

were not doing exactly the work

that they plan on
doing in the future.

They want to pivot a little bit

in their career or shift gears.

They wanted to
develop a new set of

skills in terms of say,

quantitative analysis or
qualitative analysis.

Plus they want to learn
a little bit more

about specific
substantive issues.

And the two-year MPP often makes

more sense for them to
be able to do that.

Since there's Luke said It does,

it does offer a lot more
scope for for electives, for,

for being able to
do an internship

in the middle for taking on

some of these outside
of, of course,

projects might my
general advice is if

an MPP fits in

your schedule and your budget and

other constraints
you may be facing.

I recommended I think there's
a lot to be gained from

that somewhere in-between then

from the second year
of the program.

But for some people,
it will make sense

for for various reasons to,

as Luke said, to, to go
through more quickly.

And that's why we established a,

a smaller MPA program alongside
our our flagship MPP.

I thought that was a
really good answer.

I wish I hadn't actually tried

anthrax because here's
those better lives.

There shall be one.

Weigh in on this particular one.

Are the John cover everything on.

John did a great job
as I always say.

Well, we're at 845 and I'm

a big fan of making
sure to end on time.

So I want to thank
my fellow panelists.

If I if I didn't work
at the Ford School,

I would want to applied
to the Ford School.

And I want to remind
everyone that we've got two

more of these coming up on 12-16.

We had careers in public policy.

And and one January sixth,

we have a final
question and answer.

I think those are
both with beam bars,

so you should ask him about

handwriting parts of
the Dodd-Frank Act.

If you have a chance
in the Q and a.

And yeah, we will seek
to be responsive to you.

Please feel free to
reach out to any of

the faculty with
questions and follow up,

as well as our student
services team,

our incredible team on
application process issues.

So banks and we

really appreciate you
spending time with us

and look forward to
being connected.

Now. Thanks everybody.

Good luck, guys.