Welcome Webinar: You’re In! What’s next?

[Cohen] Good afternoon.  My name is Rebecca Cohen and I’m the senior communications and outreach strategist at the Ford School.  First of all, congratulations.  We are so excited that you’re considering joining the Ford School community.  As a Ford School Alum myself, I want to welcome you to the Ford School's first admitted students webinar.  As you may have heard, we will be hosting a virtual spring preview and we're working hard to expand opportunities to engage with faculty, students, and alumni online.  Please check back to the future Fordies webpage often for updates.  Today is the first of several webinars we’ll be hosting over the next few weeks.  And we have two important people here to walk through the next steps of your admissions process and answer any questions that you have.  To ask a question about anything you hear in the webinar today or any other question on your mind, please feel free to use the Q and A box on the right-hand side of your screen.  Our moderators will put it in the queue and we'll ask our panelists the question.  We will be taking a few comments first and then we'll get to Q and A as soon as possible.  So with that, I want to introduce Beth Soboleski, our Associate Director, and Tricia Schryer, the recruiting coordinator with Student and Academic Services. To get us started, Beth and Tricia can you just tell us what our admitted students should be keeping in mind as they work through the admissions process?

[Soboleski] Absolutely. Thank you, Rebecca. So we appreciate so many of you taking time to participate in this webinar with us, like so many other folks around the world were sort of learning on the fly to move into this virtual world. So we hope that you will give us feedback what other ways that would be helpful for us to provide information. But hopefully this is a good start. So the other thing we wanted to say is that the student academic services office, while we are working remotely, are absolutely available to you. So please email us, call, whatever is available to you. We're happy to still provide information to the best of our ability. Many of you have been asking us about when you might hear back from Rackham. So our Rackham School of Graduate Studies is our final step in our Admissions process. As you might imagine, with the sort of things going on on campus, their timeline has been delayed a little bit, but we understand from Rackham that all of you should hear from them by Friday of this week. So if you do not hear from Rackham by Friday, please let us know. But they're working through and getting that information out as quickly as they can. We've also had a lot of questions about fellowship support. So in your admission letter, there was a link to a form or reconsideration of fellowship aid.  Please if you would like us to consider you for any additionally aid that might become available, we ask that you fill out that form. It is our mechanism for tracking those sort of requests and getting back to people in a systematic way. So we just appreciate it if you would do that. And we've also had folks asking us questions about things like teaching assistant positions and that sort of thing. So on the University of Michigan campus, those positions are unionized, so those are posted centrally through The University of Michigan jobs website. Many of our students do get a GSI position during their time here, and certainly we absolutely encourage you. I believe there was information in your admissions letter or email about how to find that information, but if you need any help with that, let us know. But that is a really terrific way to supplement your experience hereat Michigan though. Please do explore that. So I just wanted to sort of walk through really briefly the highlights of what we think students gain from the Master's program. We have a very substantive toolkit that we work to impart to our students. One of the things that we talked about a lot is our are analytic toolkit, so teaching our students to to think really strategically and analytically about policy and this current situation I guess is probably a prime example of a law, policy, and action. And you can see sort of the different types of responses from country to country and even from state to state here in the U. S. So although public policy has lots of different facets, so trying to help you understand what those facets might be,  how you might analyze them, that sort of thing. We also think it's important to think about it from apolitical and ethical standpoint. So values and ethics is part of the core curriculum, helping people think through things, not just things that would be expedient, but also things would be fair and equitable. We want you to and we work very hard at, in our communications toolkit. You will hear, I think on Thursday from our writing centers. Is that right, Rebecca? Thursday?
[Cohen] Yes. 
[Soboleski] So you will have a webinar with one of our writing center instructors on Thursday. But that is a tremendous resource for our students.  We have four writing instructors who participate in that center and just do an amazing job helping our students with developing those really tight writing skills. Also through a number of other opportunities to, to practice public speaking and other types of communication. So the communication tool kit is really important. Also, we are very excited this year, we have launched a sort of a new Leadership Initiative. All of our students will be having opportunities to really  develop and refine their leadership skills through work with graduate Career Services, who you'll hear from tomorrow, and other types of opportunities. So we're really excited about those, those new leadership opportunities for you and giving you the option to practice sort of both inside the classroom and outside of the classroom. Some of you may have been interested in our concentration. So we have five concentrations that we launched last year. Those concentrations are in Policy Analysis, public and non-profit management, social policy, international policy, and international development policy. That information is on the website. But I know that those  faculty leads for those different concentrations would be more than happy to answer questions that you might have. And there's also a document on the website that gives you an idea of the types of classes that you would take as part of each of those concentration. The concentrations are optional. But a lot of students have been really interested in pursuing those concentrations. One of the other things that I think students really appreciate about the University of Michigan is that the Ford School, It’s not a, it’s not a giant place. We are a school of about 450 students. There are about 250 students in the master's program. But we're situated a very large public research university with 19 different schools and colleges. Our students have the option to take classes across a wide range of academic disciplines. And we actually require you to take at least one class outside of the Ford School. But it's just a tremendous resource for those that want to explore a particular. So for example, if you’re, if you're interested in health policy, taking classes in the school of public health. If you're interested in sort of non-profit and public management. Lots of students will take classes at the Ross School of Business. There are over 50 graduate certificates here on campus. So students sometimes pursue one of those graduate certificates. And a goodly number, probably about a third of our students do a dual degree over the course of their time here. It's a great way to sort of bring together a wide variety of academic interests as well as the resources from those different schools. So we're happy to answer questions that you might have about bringing in classes from outside of Ford. And I know that we had had some interest in developing greater quantitative skill. So certainly classes through the Department of Statistics, a math class, the Econ Department, that sort of thing, a reall available to you. So those are just some of the opportunities here available on campus. And I think Tricia is going to talk a little bit more about sort of what it's like to be a student here. 
[Schryer] Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining us. We are delighted that you’re able to do so. As Beth talked a lot about what skills you'll gain through the program and curriculum. I also, I want to touch base on academic resources that are available. So for all incoming students, we have orientation week, the week prior to classes starting. We also host a math camp. It helps students touchup and refresh on the skills they'll need in the quantitative courses during the fall.  We touch down on the writing center. You'll hear more about them again on Thursday. And in each of the core courses, there are graduate student instructors. They're there to support you. We also have implemented  quantitative methods tutors. So if you need just a little additional support in any of those quantitative courses, those tutors are available to assist you. As he said, you'll hear more about the Writing Centers.  Aside from  the Academic Support, you'll receive support from our Master's academic advisor in our student and academic services center. And the faculty here  are always willing to support the students, whether you want to meet with them about their work or research or questions you have about a class.  Our faculty are really incredible being supportive in that way. And Beth and I are always happy to speak with you by phone or email with any questions you have. Last, I just want to say one aspect of the Ford School that in my opinion, is one of the greatest strengths is the sense of community and support that you feel throughout all members of the Ford School. We just we really want to express and make sure you are all aware of that support that you'll receive once you're here. 
[Cohen] Great.  Thank you both so much. And I should mention that we have more than 75 attendees today on the webinar. And some of you have already asked questions for the Q and A button, so please keep those questions coming. I mean, we're actually going  to transition to some of those questions. Tricia, I think that was a great segue into  the Ford School community that we have here. Can one of you please talk a little bit about what calling night is all about and as students, you might have seen some emails or on our website about calling night. How does that work?
[Schryer] We assign each of the  admitted students to a student, alumni or faculty. You'll be hearing from representatives from each of those communities  by phone or email. So we know that many of you have  questions about the curriculum, about life as a student, what, what is it like to live in the Ann Arbor? And students, current students, alumni, and faculty are great at answering some questions. So beginning this week, later on this week, you’ll start hearing  from Ford School community members and please ask the many questions you have and they're happy to answer. 
[Cohen] Thanks.  Ok, so we have some questions about going back to the math or I'm sorry, the forms that you mentioned Beth about being reconsidered for aid.  There was a question about when we can expect to hear back. Can we expect to hear back before the decision due date on that reconsideration. 
[Soboleski] You will hear something back. You may or may not hear a decision back. We'll certainly give updates along the way, but we may not have a full picture of what our fellowship budget looks like until a little later in the process. But we certainly know that that's an important decision point for folks. So you will, you will hear as much information as we can share along the way and certainly we will provide an update before the decision deadline. 
[Cohen] Another sort of  broad question, what’s the rough size of the graduating grad schoolmaster's level class?
[Soboleski] So for the for the Master public policy program, the MPP, two-year program between a100 and 110 students per class. So each class would be about that size, graduating.  Sometimes a little bit smaller because students do stick around often times for an additional year to do one of those dual degree programs. The MPA program is between probably 20 and 25 folks. And since that's a one-year, a two-semester program, those folks would be graduating as a cohort as well. So, you know, at any one time, between 120 and 130 students would be graduating roughly. 
[Cohen] As an alum,  I can also tell you that those 110 people become your best friends very quickly, very close-knit community. Alright. So next question is about, more specifically about some of the quantitative courses. So what are some of, if you, if you can answer, what are some of the textbooks, stats packages that they would be using in the quantitative courses. 
[Soboleski] So the primary statistical software packages, a STATA software packet, then that's something that you will get access to once you're here. I don't know the text books off the top of my head, but there's a lot of information on the website. If you go and look under academics, there’s a link to the course schedule. And many of those courses, many of those classes have a link to the syllabi or something like that with more information. So I would say at this point, go to the website if you're interested in checking out textbooks, probably the best place to find that information. And the other thing I will say broadly is fear about quantitative  coursework is amongst the top questions that we get in concerns. So we get, you know, if we admitted you to the program, we have faith that you have the ability to do that and we will provide the resources for you to be successful so, yeah, it might be a steep learning curve and you might spent a lot of hours working on your, on your STATA dataset, but you're going to get it done and you're going to have master that material. 
[Cohen] Can you share with our students about how many electives that they can take during the two years, or how students typically approach electives. 
[Soboleski] So in the MPP program, you can take up to 12 credits. So essentially once, once the master senses of 48 credit program, most students will spend the first year taking their core courses here at Ford. Although if you've, if you’ve taken a lot of statistics or other types of quantitative classes and you choose to waive those, that will give you a little more flexibility, but for most folks that first year, primarily here at Ford. And so they will explore those electives murein their second year. But with the caveat that if you see an elective class that's offered in a particular semester that this really is something that you feel like you need to take, go ahead and take it. I mean, you can work with your advisor because we can’t guarantee that elected it will be offered every semester, every year. So definitely there’s something specialized that you want to get, go ahead and take that class. And the MPA program, the Master of Public Affairs program, it’s nine credits outside of Ford, but that's still a pretty good size number of elective credits. So I think it’s nine, right? Sorry, I didn't have that in front of me. So but, but we definitely encourage students to explore the richness of campus and, and take those classes. And we have resources available that you can find classes or others have found particularly useful. 
[Cohen] A question about dual degrees. Again, this is  somewhat related. Do you have to signup for one for a dual degree before you start this program, or can you do that at any time. 
[Schryer]U of M does a really good job with dual agrees. You can either apply to both programs at the same time. Typically, you take to two-year programs and combine them to be a three-year program. Most students spend one full year in one program, their second year in the second program and their third year finishing their requirements between the two. Or if you start in one program, you can apply during that first year to the second program.  You have a lot of flexibility. 
[Soboleski] And that goes both ways. You can start at Ford  and apply to other places. Or there's also students that apply to other places here and come here for what is essentially  their second year. 
[Cohen] We have a couple logistical questions here. So one is, is it possible to do part-time? Is it possible to defer for a year?  And then I think the big question on everybody's mind, if there's been any consideration about extending the deadline for decisions due to everything that's going on right now. And the COVID-19 pandemic. 
[Soboleski] So the challenge with part-time,  We have no problem with part-time but there's two basic challenges. One, almost all of our classes are offered during the day, though we have very few classes in the evening.  For folks that have a flexible work schedule that are able to be in class accouple days a week, part-time schedule can work. The other challenge is just the way the program is structured. Your considered full-time once you’re enrolled for nine credits. So you're paying that full-time price at nine credits, but it stays the same price up to 18 credits. So it becomes comparatively more expensive if you try to do it part-time. But certainly if that’s something that folks want to do, we’re happy to help walk them through that. What was the other question?
[Cohen] If admissions can be deferred. 
[Soboleski] Yeah. So I will be honest with you, we have not gotten at the point with that decision. Yes, we certainly understand that we all have many circumstances that we were not expecting to have to deal with at this point. So we will be taking that under consideration and we’ll communicate that well before the decision. But at this point, we haven't made that decision. But stay tuned we will send any updates that we have about that. One thing I will mention is that the for those of you that were interested in the Bohnett fellowship, we did extend that deadline until Wednesday. That had been this weekend, so we extended that deadline to Wednesday. 
[Schyrer] I just want to clarify. So you can defer your admissions offer up to one year. If you receive any fellowships, There’s no guarantee that that funding will also be deferred, but your admissions offer can be deferred for one year and then your decision deadline as of now is still the same as it states in your admissions email. 
[Cohen] Great.  Thank you. We it seems like we have several students who are interested in pursuing being GSIs and doing some teaching. So wondering what kinds and if there are any teaching supports available for those who want to become TAs? Oh, yeah.  Actually, I do think that those GSI positions are a great learning opportunity. I mean, obviously, there's lots  of economic benefits as well. But our Center for Research on Learning and Teaching here on campus  provides tremendous resources for folks that want to develop better teaching skills. There's a number of mandatory orientations that that folks  have to go through. But CRLT offers resources all through the academic year that semester for folks to learn how to perfect some of their teaching techniques. So there's absolutely, there are absolutely resources available for folks that want to become better teachers.  Great. 
[Cohen] What type of support do MPP academic advisors provide students throughout the program. So is each student assigned an academic or faculty advisor?
[Soboleski] So we have we only have one academic advisor in our office. He works with all of our Masters students. Well, I say he, currently Corey stork, who some of you may have interacted with, is unfortunately leaving us to move out of state, but we will have a new person in that role within the next few months. But all of our masters students work with their academic advisor in our office. We don't assign formal faculty advisors, but faculty are always happy to serve as informal advisors and mentors and that sort of thing. So definitely a lot and some of it depends on the types of questions. I mean, I think our Graduate Career Services Office does a great job of providing support for folks in the job search and internships and other type of thing. So there's a sort of a variety of different resources available for folks looking to get sort of a second opinion about something or guidance. 
[Cohen] Great. Thanks. Thanks for all of the questions. Keep them coming. We have a few more questions about the Math Camp. So is the math camp over the summer? Can you just share a little bit more, elaborate a little bit more about math camp. and preparing students to be academically ready for this quantitative courses. 
[Schryer] Absolutely. The week prior to class starting, so the last week or so of August this year. So a little earlier as classes start the end of August. We have a mandatory orientation  for all admitted masters students. The week prior to that, we will have a two or three-day math camp. Math camp is ran by one of our quantitative faculty members on one or two of them. And they put together their review materials and coursework to go through those during that two or three-day period just to make sure you are up to date on all the quantitative skills that you'll need in your quant courses. So whether that statistics, economics, we do also we offer waiver exams for both the first microeconomics course and statistics course. That will be held at the end of orientation week. Though, if you feel you are proficient in either of those areas, you're more than welcome to take the waiver exam. And if you pass and you waive that requirement and have space for more elective courses. 
[Soboleski] And there's a series of newsletters that go out over the course of the summer  with all this information, but also just there's a second, I don't think we call it boot camp, but there's also apolitical institutions Boot Camp that we offer folks That typically takes place a couple of days before the math camp. So particularly some of our international students who are not as familiar with the US institutions often times appreciate participating in that as well. So lots of, lots of additional resources for that. 
[Cohen] So I think again, on this, on the other end of the spectrum with us, those who may be more advanced statistics and quantitative methods, are there opportunities to take more advanced versions of the core classes?
[Soboleski] So the core, the core quantitative classes. So we have sort of a track in the core classes. So there's, one section that has that will move a little quicker pace than the other. And students, well, I mean,  we will share that information with students so they can make the best choice for themselves. There is a section that does move a little  faster than the other, but will go a little more in depth, certainly if there are folks that want to go beyond that, there are other higher-level quantitative courses both here at Ford and elsewhere on campus. So if you want to, if you want to max out on those quant skills, we have the classes for you to do that. But that there are, there are some variation in those core classes or quantitative class. 
[Cohen] And we had a question about if there are opportunities to study internationally. 
[Soboleski] So there aren't opportunities built into the curriculum to study internationally in sort of thee typical study abroad sense,  there are opportunities to engage internationally as part of the program. The most obvious is the summer internship that the MPP students have to do. There's always a goodly number of students that pursue that internship abroad in the summer between first and second years. Unfortunately, that may not be as many this year as in some other years, but we expect that that will bounce back after that. There's a class that we call IEDP, so the international economic development program. Each year the students choose a country that they're interested in learning more about. They recruit a faculty adviser that teaches the class. And then as a group, they travel to that  country over spring break. I believe they went to Columbia this past month. And I thought I heard something about Kenya for next year, but I could be wrong about that. There's some, there's that, but there's a destination that each year the students go to. There's also a class focused on China. So Professor Ann Lin teaches a class on both Chinese economic and social policy, I believe. And the students take a two-week trip to China with Professor Lin at the end of the winter semester as well. So there are a variety of opportunities, and I know that there are also through our Weiser Diplomacy Center, there have been opportunities for small groups of students to apply for funds to go on a trip to a country to study a particular topic. Definitely opportunities to engage internationally, but not in the traditional study abroad for a semester. 
[Cohen] And I should also mention that we will be doing another webinar with the Weiser Diplomacy Center next week.  Look for information about that on the Future Fordies web page. I don't think that's scheduled yet, but we are expanding some of these opportunities. So you can hear more about, about from our research centers. I mention that our original time was between 12 to 12:30today Eastern time. Beth and Tricia have generously extended their time, so we will be on and stay on for another 15 minutes or so to keep answering your question.  I'd like to let everybody know that we will continue to answer some questions here. past 12:30 and this will be recorded and on the Future Fordies web page for those of you that you need to sign on. So we had a couple questions about MPP students going on to do a PhD at the Ford School or at Rackham, another program. How common is that?
[Soboleski] It's not terribly common. I mean, there's a pretty significant difference between the training in the Master's program  and the PhD program. in that the program is designed to be a professional master's degrees. So it's designed to be a terminal degree. But there are definitely folks that somewhere along the way realize that maybe this research and teaching path is the one that's, that they would like to follow. And so I would say a handful of students probably will go on to a PhD. Most will go and work fora few years and then go back to a PhD program. I will mention, the PhD programs here at Ford are very small. And so it is there's not a large number of students on the MPP that would then eventually pursue a PhD. But we have had students who've gone to other programs as well. So it's certainly, I wouldn't say it's a common path, but it is certainly a path that is possible. 
[Cohen] And then for folks who are interested in an MPA, we had one question about if it's possible to do a part-time MPA.  And then another question about where, who folks could contact to learn more about MPA? Is there a, current MPA students that they can talk about a little bit more about the coursework. 
[Soboleski] Yeah, I mean, so that the answer to the question about the part-time MPA is the  same as the answer  I gave earlier. That really logistically, the classes are during the day. So if you're schedule is flexible, that you can work it out to be here a couple of days a week. It's possible. We try with the MPA schedule, at least the core classes in a particular semester to be on the same two days. But it is not the easiest path them. And that the majority of our students are pursuing their studies full-time. We will expect that as part of the  calling night effort, our goal is to do connect current MPA students with students that have been admitted to the MPA program for next year. If you were admitted to the MPP, and you're sort of thinking about which one is the best fit for you. Reach out to Tricia or I and we can help you make some of those connections on an individual basis. 
[Cohen] A Funding question. When will students hear about need based funding?
[Soboleski] So need-based funding doesn't come through our office. Most need-based funding. And I will make a caveat here. So need-based funding at the graduate level does not mean the same thing as it does at the undergraduate level. So at the graduate level, the grants and those sort of opportunities that were available are not part of the packages that are given out. So most of the need-based packages awarded by our Office of Financial Aid consist of work-study funding, some subsidized loans, and unsubsidized loans. To start that process, you need to get your FAFSA filed. And probably getting that in as soon as you can as it is a good thing. But that, that is handled by the Office of Financial Aid here on campus. So that's sort of outside of our realm here within Ford. 
[Cohen] Did the D. C reception happen?
[Soboleski] The D. C reception did happen. So for those of you that RSVPed toto match box last week, I'm very sad that I didn't get a chance to go, but I understand from a couple of our alums that were there, that it was a smallish but lively grouping, hopefully with lots of good food and pizza. But I will be I just got the the listing of folks that attended that from one of our alum. So I'll be reaching out to that group. And I know that they, and I think this is sort of a general all they wanted to stay connected to one another. And that is really one of  the wonderful benefits of spring preview, is that you do get the opportunity to meet your fellow prospective students. And so if you have suggestions about good ways for us to help you make those connections to meet one another in this new virtual way, we would be happy to try and make as many connections as we can. Obviously, we will be connecting with current students, but being able to figure out a way to connect you with one another is something that we're very open to. So if you have suggestions, please send them our way. 
[Cohen] So can you share a little bit more about the Riecker Michigan delegation fellowship?
[Soboleski] So the Riecker Michigan's, So the Riecker Michigan delegation is a pretty cool internship opportunity so two students are selected during their first year here and they are given funding to go to DC. They're placed with the senior I think the senior senator and representative from Michigan, if I'm not mistaken. But you spend winter semester winter semester and through the Summer, So essentially eight months working in that public officials office. And then it throws these questions off a little bit. So the Riecker fellows actually graduate the following December, typically since they're not on campus for a semester. But it's been, I think, tremendous learning opportunity. We have two students that are in D. C right now pursuing that opportunity. But it's a great you'd like if you're interested in and learning about what it's like to be a staffer on the Hill and, and sort of interested in getting that more political perspective. I think it's an opportunity to be behind the curtain, if you will. 
[Cohen] So I should mention to you that there  are several questions about the alumni network at the Ford School. Jobs that folks get immediately out of, coming out of the Ford School and then five years later, internships. Funding.  The short answer is yes, there's internship funding. We are doing the webinar, as mentioned tomorrow with graduate career services. So we will forward a lot of these questions on and I know that Jennifer and Peter from graduate career services will be answering a lot of these questions on tomorrow's webinar,
[Soboleski] you might also pose the Riecker question to them as well. Yep, that comes out of their office primarily. [Cohen] So the really big picture question, from your perspective, what differentiates the Ford School from other top public policy schools in the country. 
[Soboleski] So I have a two-part answer that I mean, the first part is being at the University of Michigan. So there are a lot of, I have tremendous respect for our programs across the country that are our competitors, if you will. But there's not many that are at a place that have as many top ranked graduate programs as at the University of Michigan. So because public problems are inherently multi-disciplinary, I think that you have the opportunity to bring together really a wide range of perspectives on whatever topic area it is that you are wanting to study. So my broad answer to that is being at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor is just, I mean, this is the piece that we really feel the sadness I think about missing with the in-person spring preview because it's hard to explain Ann Arbor, you kind of have to feel Ann Arbor. So it's a, you know, it’s this college town in the Upper Midwest and people are often like, well, why would I go to Michigan, right? But, Ann Arbor it's just a great town, right? It’s, it's really, There’s just sort of academics in the air and there’s so many interesting people and speakers and folks coming through here. It's really just a tremendously academic rich environment. So even if you're, you know, if you're able to come visit at some point after, you know, sort of the pandemic goes on its way. We would love to have you come, but it's just, but Ann Arbor is just a cool place
[Schryer] I would echo the same. You know, it, there's, like I said earlier, there's a sense of community and support and just this wonderful feeling of it's like your second home. Many of you may be spending several hours here and actually make feel like your second home, um, but in a really, really positive way, it's hard for me to come to work every day, but I actually love being here and love interacting with the students. And my fellow staff members and the faculty is wonderful. And to be so inspired by the students. You each are bringing such an incredible background and story. And you bring so much the school, it makes me really excited. And in, you will hear the term community several times, but all of us here really believe it. And we really hope you join our community. 
[Cohen] I think a few more questions. A few more minutes hereabout dual degrees. Do again, going back to the dual degrees, And I think it's also with certificates because it's really about students who want to augment what the core that they're learning here, at the quantitative core that they're learning hereat the Ford School with a more content-based classes. So do most dual degree students start at the Ford School or enter in their second year. Do you see Ford School students struggle to integrate into their classes since they're splitting their time? So maybe talk a little bit about how dual degree students split their time between the different programs. 
[Soboleski] So I would say it's that it's interesting because there's, there's not really one particular half that we see. We see lots of students who have applied as an MPP student who during that first year really become interested in another topic and apply and spend that second year at that other program. We also see that in the reverse, right? That folks that started at the Ross School of Business or social work or public health, or one of the other schools who realized that while I'm, interested in this topic, but I have, I really need to understand how to be an effective policy advocate or analyst so they may apply to come here. I would say the smallest number I should probably are the folks that apply, sort of know that up front and apply to both programs upfront. But there are definitely folks that do that. And then you have the choice of where to start. But it really is in those first two, you're sort of, you're sort of mostly in one community in one year and mostly in the other community and the other year. And yes, sometimes there can be some integration issues, right? So, so places like the law school or the business school are much bigger than we are. So we do have a different feel, but we're physically co-located, not very far away from each other, or at least the number of the different programs. But I think, you know, I mean, I think most students who were doing a dual degree will tell you that, that Ford still feels like their home base, right? They still feel very connected here. So I don't think that just the fact that you're in primarily in another school fora year is going to, you know, sort of disconnect you from Ford. 
[Cohen] And then on the certificate programs, what are some of the common certificates that Ford School students go for. And are these compromise all of their electives or is there opportunity for others?
[Soboleski] It certainly doesn't take up all of them. So, so most certificates are between 9-12 credits. Certainly a popular one is our science and technology and public policy graduate certificate that's, that's housed here at Ford for folks that are interested in sort of thinking more about policy and the more tech part of the world. There's Certificate in data analysis, I think that's the name of it.  That's relatively new, that has become extremely popular. There's a healthy city certificate that has become really quite popular. But I mean there are many different types, but the certificates function as kind of a quasi-dual degree. You get to double count some of those credits, so you're not necessarily adding a whole additional nine or 12credits onto your overall credits you get to double count some of those. So it's not quite as heavy lift as that might sound at first. 
[Cohen] Think we'll take one last question. And this is a little bit about the Ford School's connection to the city of Detroit. And so I know that we'll also be answering this question through graduate career service.  And we are organizing a webinar also with Poverty Solutions next week. So stay tuned for information on that. Because poverty solutions is a university-wide initiative that is housed here in the Ford School We're very proud of the work that they're doing. But I don't know. If you want to talk just for a minute about connections to Detroit, if you have any thoughts on that. 
[Soboleski] There's a lot of them. It's sometimes a little daunting to even start to try to enumerate them because I know I will leave somebody out. Certainly, you mentioned Poverty Solutions. There's also a program called Youth Policy Lab Got the wrong word, The Youth Policy Lab that have folks actually embedded in the City of Detroit. I mean, we mentioned the Bohnett fellows, that's one way. But even outside of Bohnett, if you're interested in your internship in the, in the city of Detroit. We probably had 12 to 15 students who did their internship in Detroit, not necessarily with city government, but with other organizations. We have a really broad alumni network in the city. There's actually a networking trip in the fall that students take to Detroit. I know the Center for Finance, Law, and Policy also does a lot of work with entrepreneurs in the city of Detroit. So, so the, the research centers certainly are, are very engaged in a lot of different ways that P3E,the program impractical policy engagement that I get that right, we just call it P3E has lots of opportunities to work with folks in the city of Detroit. So if you're interested in issues and working with the city, you will find a myriad of ways to, to make those connections for sure. And there's also an elective called the, history and future of Detroit with Ben Farley, who’s a lovely man and you would thoroughly enjoy the class. 
[Cohen] And I should also mention the engaged learning webinar will be next Monday at noon. We have faculty and staff who will be talking more about those opportunities in Detroit and really all over the country and the world through engaged learning. So with that, our time is up. Thank you so much for your time today to talk to our admitted students. Thank you for participating on the webinar. As I mentioned earlier, we’re going to have a lot of different opportunities to engage. virtually to learn about the Ford school community this week. We've mentioned this. They'll be Tuesday, tomorrow, Graduate Career Services at lunch. Thursday will be with the Writing Center at lunch next week again, we’re hosting several webinars. Please check back to the future Fordies web page for additional panel discussions with faculty and staff or our virtual spring preview on April third. And we really hope we get to see you and Ann Arbor this fall. Go blue.
[Soboleski] Go blue.  Thanks.